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Post by jorick on Apr 16, 2007 15:50:14 GMT
I thought that N. maxima had a characteristic hooked boss under the lid and a long filament at the tip. So I would say that this is a hybrid and not pure maxima.
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 16, 2007 16:05:52 GMT
During the mid '80's I brought in dozens of N. maxima from John Turnbull, and raised hundreds more from seed; not all N. maxima develop this filament from the end of the lid, nor do all specimens developed a keel, or boss under the back of lid. Sulawesi has dozens of forms, from the miniatures near Lake Poso area, to the wavy leaved varieties, large and small peristomes, green and dark red in color, fuzzy and glabrute. There is some controversy about whether or not N. maxima occurs in Borneo, some taxonomists believe that those plants in Borneo are forms of N. fusca. I also grew out many forms of N. fusca, some all green, with narrow peristomes, others dark red, and wide peristomes, and combinations in-between.
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Post by jorick on Apr 16, 2007 17:02:37 GMT
Well I didn't know that, thanks. I've read the thing about the boss and the filaments in the book ' Pitcher plants of Borneo '. According to that book N. maxima grows in Borneo, but I agree when you say that it is not sure whether it is N. maxima or fusca.
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Post by sunbelle on Apr 16, 2007 20:35:54 GMT
I'm sticking to N. 'Gentle'. Sure looks like it, but I'll also consider Where he is located. I know that DeRoose distributes through a grower in Costa Rica, and it is very likely to be that particular plant. From what I understand, it is really difficult to import tropical plants into Costa Rica.
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Post by Dave Evans on Apr 17, 2007 3:18:28 GMT
Dear Rich and Carlos, This plant looks like it has some N. fusca it it... So i'm thinking it is probably N. 'Gentle'. Some forms of N. maxima do look like N. fusca, but they usually come with location data. Where did this plant come from? Dave E. Still looks like a standard N. maxima to me!
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 17, 2007 23:43:05 GMT
N. fusca generally have smaller leaves than N. maxima, also they're more spathulate shaped while N. maxima are nearly rectangular, and the fuzz on the leaf edges on N. fusca are usually brown, while they seem to be a lighter color on N. maxima, and the shape of the peristome is also slightly different in that N. fusca sometimes doesn't have the characteristic point in-between the two "wings", and often has thinner lids than N. maxima; again there really is a lot of variations on these two species, especially when grown in different conditions; but it still looks to me like a N. maxima. btw, the N. emeyi, (N. infundibuliformis, which is in my opinion, just another N. maxima) all seem to have both the keel lobe in back of the lid, and the filament just under the end of the lid, but they do have a nice range of variety in their peristomes, some being very wide, almost like N. veitchii. You're correct Dave, location would be very helpful!
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Post by Dave Evans on Apr 18, 2007 3:05:30 GMT
Hello Rich,
If you look at the N. fusca from Sarawak, the leaves of this form resemble the leaves of both N. maxima and N. fallax more than other the leaves on other forms of N. fusca. The coloration of this N. fusca is drastically different from other forms as well. Interesting, huh?
Dave E.
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 18, 2007 13:10:00 GMT
I agree, Dave, as much as I like to see N. emeyi classified as a form of N. maxima, and N. hamatus as a form (albeit a very extreme peristome form) of N. tentaculata, I think that this stand of N. fusca in the Sarawak site (either by genetic drift, or by gene pool contamination, or both, with something like N. steno), which we once knew as N. faizialiana, should be classified as another separate species as the leaf shape, and the pitcher shape and color, along with the peristome is significantly different than the other standard forms of N. fusca found elsewhere on Borneo. I haven’t had the opportunity to compare the flowering parts yet, which is a far more accurate and significant botanical feature for taxonomic purposes.
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Clint
Full Member
Posts: 808
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Post by Clint on Apr 18, 2007 18:00:45 GMT
I think such an extreme peristome and the varying coloration of N. hamata is enough for a species status. You can't lump ALL the time.
We need a "Maxima Complex" like the "Binata Complex" instead of promoting neat variations to real species.
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Post by costaricacultivator on Apr 24, 2007 21:32:49 GMT
hi, y'all! happy to be part of an interesting discussion like this one. all the nepenthes plants i have asked their names about come from an importer who has a beautiful greenhouse in a place called berlin in san ramón of alajuela. he in turn, got his tissue cultured plants from malesiana plants. this i know because i was thinking on importing plants for my personal collection from that company until i hit with reality and there was no way to bring a few plants without spending a fortune. as sunbelle correctly stated, it's very difficult to import plants into costa rica. imagine, it took the same investment to bring in plants for commercial purposes, so the lady from malesiana gave me the address for the grower and the rest is history. well, actually the importer got in touch with the people from costa rican orchids (hey clint, our good old friend alfredo ) and as they already sold orchids and vft's to greenhouses and food stores, you now find nepenthes in the fresh sections everywhere alongside pinapples, papayas and tangerines. carlos
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Post by costaricacultivator on Jul 3, 2007 17:55:56 GMT
just to share with you two new pictures of my n. maxima (or n. gentle). maybe they help defining what species it is. one is a photo of an upper pitcher (its first!) and a flower (also first). thinking it over, maybe i should've taken a picture of the pitcher's front. i will and post it later.
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Post by rsivertsen on Jul 3, 2007 18:15:32 GMT
Looking at them now, they seem more like N. mixta superba to me than N. maxima.
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Post by costaricacultivator on Jul 4, 2007 1:57:12 GMT
ooops! my mistake. consensus was that the plant was n. miranda. mixta and gentle were the two possibilities for the second plant i posted pictures of next. i didn't remember this 'til i reread the whole thread.
sorry.
carlos
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Post by Dave Evans on Jul 4, 2007 3:56:24 GMT
Dear Carlos,
Please photograph the stem and leaves, these have often have characteristics which can rule out some possibilities. For example, Nepenthes maxima almost always has wings from the petioles of leaves which are decurrent on the stem all the way down to the next node (where the previous leaf is attach to the stem). If your plant doesn't ever show this feature, it is not N. maxima. Often, even the pitchers do not show enough detail to make a positive ID, as all these species and now hybrids show a tremedous amount of diversity.
Your plants sure looks good, BTW.
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Post by costaricacultivator on Jul 5, 2007 3:35:38 GMT
hey dave! thanks! hope these photos work for you. carlos
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