Big honking Ventricosa...

[rsivertsen]

That plant originally came from Longwood Gardens, and was originally called "N. boschiana" and was later called N. alata var bosciana when we realized it was actually one of the green forms of N. alata; it's origin information was lost, and is unknown, but many of the green forms of N. alata are from the southern islands of the Philippines, from Legespi southward. It is a very nice form, one of my favorites, but doubt that it has any genetic material from another species, (but it could), I just think it's attributable to plain old genetic drift of the species. It does have an uncanny resemblense to N. reinwardtiana with the squat and bulbous lower digestive part, and with the long and infundibularform upper, but again, I think it's just a sport, and random genetic drift. No populations of similar looking plants have been found to my knowledge.

[ep]

Hi All.

Sorry for the lapse of time to reply. Been busy
A couple of misconceptions/misunderstandings are arising here which I hope will be cleared up now but first.

Matti: Our greenhouse for the highland plants has about 70% shade. Humidity ranges from about 60-100%(at night). Temps range from unheated winter minimums of about 5oC in the early morning to summer maximums rarely over 30oC and only for short times.

Gus: I am surprised that you would even suggest that our red/purple vent was a hybrid. It is pictured with immature pitchers which you should know are not waisted.

For the record: We have various Nepenthes ventricosa plants all originated from various localities in the Philippines. Until recently all breeding was done with, what we can call here, the 'non-type' variants. These non-type variants had various amounts of red on them but all displayed type N.ventricosa traits. The angle of the mouth and the amount of constriction around the waist varied slightly. The characteristics evident in our red clones, giant red clones, the red/purple clones and the squat clones were selectively bred into these plants from the non-type variants. A couple of sports were evident (pictured) and we selected a couple but could have missed more. The sports were in no way showing characteristics that could not be contributed to this species. As you can see, the characteristics were that of exaggerated species characteristics and not hybrid ones.
It was never suggested by me that the non-type ventricosas were hybrids, complex or otherwise. What I said in agreement with rsivertsen, is that the porcelain variants fit more with the type description, however there could be a case for the non-type variants being called another species or just a variant/form of the type one. Although not impossible, I very much doubt that the red ventricosas or the other non-type variants that have been around for many years are hybrids. If this was the case and in our many years of selective line breeding, I am sure hybrid traits would have appeared.
Please enjoy the photos below. If you look closely you can see type characteristics in these clones, none of which were bred with the type ones. Also notice the photo of the immature pitcher which is the type crossed with a red one. This is the first time we have bred with the 'porcelain' clones. Thanks.

Geoff

[matti]

Thanks for your help Geoff, much appreciated, may I ask when you are going to start relesing species plants? you have some niiiice stuff thats hard to get here.

Boy I never thought I would of opened up a can 'o' worms like this.

Matti.

[BarryRice]

rsivertsen said:

That plant originally came from Longwood Gardens, and was originally called "N. boschiana" and was later called N. alata var bosciana when we realized it was actually one of the green forms of N. alata; it's origin information was lost, and is unknown, but many of the green forms of N. alata are from the southern islands of the Philippines, from Legespi southward.

Is this the plant that I've seen in collections labelled N. alata "boschiana mimic"?

Barry

[rsivertsen]

Barry, without looking at the plant myself, it is most likely that those N. alata that had anything with the label "boschiana" mimic, or otherwise is this same plant.

Longwood also had plants labeled as "N. stenophylla" and “N. burkei" which Japanese authorities regarded both as red forms of N. alata, where in the northern islands, especially in Luzon, several populations have plants that are very similar; but again, Longwood's records of origin of these plants were lost for some reason, and it's still unknown where they originated from; but I have doubts as to whether these plants are in fact red forms of N. alata, and suspect that they may be some other species, perhaps even sports collected just for ornamental purposes without any significant populations of plants with these exact features exist! Such expedition practices were not uncommon in those days.

The plant called "N. stenophylla" has a vaulted lid, and a small keel under the lid; the plant called "N. burkei" has a flat lid, also having a small keel under the lid (sometimes), can be a very dark red color, and has an oblique peristome angle, much like N. tentaculata, and both have a slight presence of small hairs on the leaf margins, (the green forms have smooth, hairless leaf margins), and both grow better in highland conditions; also, both plants are female. In highland conditions, they will form large pitchers, and maintain a compact basal growth, but in warm lowland conditions, they quickly go into climbing forms and flower. All the green forms grow best in warm lowland conditions, and slow down, do poorly in cool highland conditions.

While I'm on the subject of Longwood's plants being mislabeled, their N. wittei turned out to be a natural hybrid of N. fusca and N. albo-marginata, and if you have this plant, you will notice a faint white pubescent ring just under the peristome; otherwise, it is very close to a N. fusca, a large and nice one too!

[agustinfranco]

hi Geoff:

As usual, beautiful plants. Regarding your comment on ventricosa red/purple being a true ventricosa variant, it's difficult still for me to distinguish an immature pitcher from a mature one when the immature pitchers from the plants you grow are almost as huge as the one from your mature plants.

Cheers,

Gus

[Dave Evans]

Dear Clint and Rich,

I think there is some correlation bewteen the sex of the clone and the shape of the peristome in Nepenthes ventricosa. All my female plants produce flatter peristomes than the males, which are all well rounded. Now, my clones only number about eight, so it is really a very small sample of clones... But only the females ever produce these "fancy goldfish tail" like peristomes.

Sincerely,
Dave Evans

justlikeapill said:

Exotica plants and that link must be copied and pasted into the browser instead of clicking on it. Proboards is weird something.

Dave, THANK you for that awesome picture (and please call me Clint!)
that peristome almost looks... like a fancy goldfish tail!

[Dave Evans]

rsivertsen said:

Here is the image of N. ventricosa "porcelain clone" that Dave referred to earlier. Note the perisome does not connect and rise up towards the lid.

Dear Rich,

I do believe this is a characteristic of the upper pitchers peristomes, all of the plants have some slope to the peristomes on the lowers pitchers, some more than others; while the upper pitcher tend to have flatter peristomes. Sometimes the intermediate-upper peristomes look similar to those on N. rajah, other times they can remind one of something between N. dubia and N. jacquelineae. Even these other species known for their flat peristomes also show more slope on the peristomes of their lower pitchers.