matti
Full Member
Posts: 216
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Post by matti on Mar 29, 2007 4:12:59 GMT
This plant has never really performed for me overly well but since I moved here, a couple of weeks later... this. , I think it is because the relative humidity here is almost always 70%, all the big pitchers (new pitchers) are in the vacinity of 13cm heigh x 5 wide at the peristrome. Nepenthes ventricosa male (c) - 1.5 litre coke bottle. Nepenthes ventricosa male (c) Nepenthes ventricosa male (c) - 600ml coke bottle Nepenthes ventricosa male (c) - thumb Please do not take any notice of the (c) wile the plant is from exotica plants it is not one of their special new breed ventricosa's, I got it 3-4 years ago, the (c) is meerley my own labelling system so each year when I produce seed I know exacly what is crossed.
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Post by necifix on Mar 29, 2007 6:39:44 GMT
A home with a constant relative humidity of 70%? That's a good growing place!
Very nice ventricosa pitchers. Mine won't pitcher either. Maybe it's humidity. Very nice large pitchers, good peristome too.
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Post by ludwig on Mar 29, 2007 12:29:10 GMT
wow 70% all the time? Perfect for a CP grower. Nice happy plant there.
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Post by rsivertsen on Mar 29, 2007 23:42:28 GMT
I've been growing Nepenthes for several decades now, and it's my opinion that these red forms of N. ventricosa are a hybrid population; of which other species, I'm not sure. The only true species of N. ventricosa, in cultivation, that I'm sure of, is the one called "porcelain" form, which originated from Longwood Gardens. I have a dried pitcher from a mature plant with the dried specimen pitcher being still 8 inches tall! When grown properly, it dwarfs all other forms of N. ventricosa. John Turnbull once told me that he observed large plants growing epiphytically in northern Luzon, but didn't have the time to harvest seed, and observed pitchers exceeding 12 inches in length. The Longwood clone can produce thin narrow leaves nearly a foot long, and to my knowledge has never flowered for anyone, and is yet undetermined of its gender. -Rich
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Post by Dave Evans on Mar 30, 2007 3:36:32 GMT
Dear Rich and Forum, I'm working on flowering it. BTW, when other clones are allowed to grow out and get large, the pitchers they produce are nearly identical to those of the "porcelain" form. The only difference I have been able to notice is the peristome on the porcelain form tends to be flatter on some pitchers, and the coloration is really nice solid cream w/o much spotting. As you know, I have several clones of N. ventricosa which I've produced from seed. I have taken care not to involve N. ventrata in my N. ventricosa breeding program, so if they are hybrids, they must have been hybrids when they were collected from Luzon... Which is entirely possible Who wants to visit the Philipines, climb several mountains and find out? I'm down for the trip, but in need of tips regarding such an adventure. BTW, I'll have pure species (from a plant Rich says is a hybrid) pollen of N. ventricosa available shorty. BTW again, N. ventricosa is only supposed to get to about 4 meters in height (the flower can be a meter tall itself). So, if you have a "porcelain" clone that is over six feet long, it should be getting ready to flower within a year or so... My cutting from Bill is a whole five inches tall. Guess I'll be waiting awhile for those flowers. Seriously, I have one down in VA at a friend's greenhouse that is already two feet long, maybe it will flower next spring depending on how well it does this year. Good Growing, Dave Evans
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Clint
Full Member
Posts: 808
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Post by Clint on Mar 30, 2007 3:41:33 GMT
Hybrids? I thought they were all just different variations of the same plant? What? Maybe with N. burkei (I'm still not convinced with that one )? Any pics of a "porcelain" form? I've never seen it. I tried Bob's site but I couldn't find it.
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Post by nic on Mar 30, 2007 11:08:26 GMT
Some of EP's "vents" are certainly hybrids, some have even shown some wings...
That does not mean that other superior clones are not pure though...
Nice pitchers matti!
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Post by rsivertsen on Mar 30, 2007 11:49:07 GMT
I have seen this "porcelain" form grow to a size of nearly six feet, without it producing a single flower spike in several years of growing without cutting it back. The peristome is also a little different from the red varieties, and it's also a little more difficult and slower to grow than the red forms. The leaves are also longer and firmer.
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Post by Dave Evans on Mar 31, 2007 16:53:29 GMT
Dear Pill and Forum, Nah, I don't think they are hybrids. N. ventricosa can have wings on, not on the lower pitchers, but the baby pitchers. And on the pitcher which are intermediate between the baby pitchers and the lower pitchers. Unless you grow Nepenthes from seed, you probably will not see baby pitchers on your plants. By the time they get into making lower pitchers, they are already wing-free. However, setting the plant back by taking a cutting, you'll sometimes see wings on one or two of the first pitchers on the new branch. Who is EP? Noticed someone said some of their plants are hybrids... I have been astounded by the level of confusion people display regarding burkei and N. ventricosa. I have literally found dozens of mislabeled N. ventricosa in people's collections... and even more in photos on the internet. What I really don't get is how someone that is already growing N. ventricosa would receive another N. ventricosa of a slightly different shade of color or have a peristome which isn't quite as wide or is wider than their other clone and declare (or maintain the mislabeling) it is a N. burkei. I have also heard, "well, it has spots. N. ventricosa doesn't have spots, so it has got to be a burkei." Really?!? Wrong, upper pitcher tend to be spot free, lower pitchers tend to have a lot more color while the uppers tends show color only on the peristome. This is a constant, repeated pattern seen in most species which produce both upper and lower pitchers. It has nothing to with telling N. ventricosa from N. burkei... In fact, I bet N. burkei has got more colorful lower pitchers than it does upper pitcher also. I have to wonder if the porcelain from isn't the hybrid. After-all, it's more robust size could be an indication of hybrid-vigor, but I still doubt it. It looks very similar to all the other real N. ventricosa I have seen. And rather unlike the dozens of N. ventrata labeled as N. ventricosa. What species are from Luzon? I thought only N. alata, N. ventrata and N. ventricosa are present there... The porcelain form sure doesn't look like a N. ventrata. Apparently, some Japanese folks were fed up with getting N. ventricosa whenever they were sold a "N. burkei" and they went to Mindoro and collected some cuttings (maybe seed?) of the true species. These clones were only available in Japan however. Recently, Rob Cantley, also visited Mindoro (within the last five years) and was able to procure seed which was put into Tissue Culture! However, based on this time frame, I really doubt there could be many hybrids involving N. burkei since it was only rarely available in Japan previous to the last couple of years. N. ventricosa is not known from Mindoro, so if there are hybrids of N. burkei * N. ventricosa, they would have to be fairly new, and probably would have been made on purpose by their grower. BTW, these three species have nearly identical lower pitchers, shape not color: N. burkei, N. insignis and N. ventricosa. They almost look like test-tubes. But, in time, the plants will show you how different they really are. I am pretty sure this one is a porcelain clone: users.skynet.be/duchene_gilles/Zara/images/nepenthes%20ventricosa%20'cream'%202%20bis.jpg Good Growing, Dave Evans Hybrids? I thought they were all just different variations of the same plant? What? Maybe with N. burkei (I'm still not convinced with that one )? Any pics of a "porcelain" form? I've never seen it. I tried Bob's site but I couldn't find it.
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Clint
Full Member
Posts: 808
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Post by Clint on Mar 31, 2007 17:25:39 GMT
Exotica plants and that link must be copied and pasted into the browser instead of clicking on it. Proboards is weird something.
Dave, THANK you for that awesome picture (and please call me Clint!) that peristome almost looks... like a fancy goldfish tail!
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Post by rsivertsen on Mar 31, 2007 20:29:36 GMT
Dave, That WAS the true N. ventricosa, known as the "porcelain clone". Notice the peristome does not ride up towards the lid, and it is nearly parallel with the ground level. It dwarfs the other forms and the leaves can get as long as your arm; I can't see this being a hybrid, as it's the biggest thing in Luzon, and it is more difficult than the other forms. Several people have had it growing for well over ten years, where it was nearly six feet tall, and it had yet to produce a flower spike. As of today, I am still unaware of anyone getting it to produce a flower! Do you know who took this image? I saw photos from John Turnbull’s trip to Luzon, and they had red pitchers, averaging about a foot long, and were red, without any spotting. Mine does eventually become red when grown in some direct early morning sunlight, and in cool conditions.
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Post by Dave Evans on Apr 2, 2007 21:37:56 GMT
Dear Rich, I think I found another one: dionee.gr.free.fr/photos/l13.jpgWhat do you think? I'm finding these on the CP photo finder page. users.humboldt.edu/rziemer/Nepenthes.html#ventricosaWhile I think it is distinct from other clones, I don't think it or other clones are distinct from N. ventricosa (for example: N. eymae is more distinct from N. maxima), all of my clones produce pitchers with this shape and coloration, but they don't make them at all times, and neither does the porcelain clone. It is currently making pitchers which look like test tubes. The peristome tends to ride up more near the lid attachment in the lower pitchers, even on the porcelain clone. I think the shape of these pitchers is reminiscent of N. lowii, and both species being epiphytic, serve to help conserve water and digested fluid if the pitcher were to be over filled by rain. Good growing, Dave Evans Dave, That WAS the true N. ventricosa, known as the "porcelain clone". Notice the peristome does not ride up towards the lid, and it is nearly parallel with the ground level. It dwarfs the other forms and the leaves can get as long as your arm; I can't see this being a hybrid, as it's the biggest thing in Luzon, and it is more difficult than the other forms. Several people have had it growing for well over ten years, where it was nearly six feet tall, and it had yet to produce a flower spike. As of today, I am still unaware of anyone getting it to produce a flower! Do you know who took this image? I saw photos from John Turnbull’s trip to Luzon, and they had red pitchers, averaging about a foot long, and were red, without any spotting. Mine does eventually become red when grown in some direct early morning sunlight, and in cool conditions.
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 2, 2007 22:21:37 GMT
Dave, another unique trait of this true form of N. ventricosa, is the firmness of the pitcher itself, similar to N. lowii, it is very rigid, almost woody, while the red forms are softer. When you grow them side by side, as mature plants, the differences become quite clear, and obvious. This "porcelain clone" is more difficult, and doesn't always grow to a robust size; but when it does, it's a show stopper! As for the N. eymae (N. infundibuliformis), it is just another geotype of N. maxima (in my opinion); Sulawesi has dozens of isolated geotype populations, some of these also have a tendency to produce "sports", which are individual plants which pop up within the population that are significantly different from the rest of the same population. Anyone who has grown a few Nepenthes from seed will observe this as well
Some species seem to be more or less likely to produce "sports" and there are a few theories: one may have something to do with the possibility of having pollen from another species, another suggests that past hybridization is being manifested, and another suggests "genetic stress" where there is enough genetic variability within the gene pool that could soon produce a new species. The controversy on N. copelandii, may fall into this category.
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Post by ICPS-bob on Apr 4, 2007 1:24:59 GMT
... that link must be copied and pasted into the browser instead of clicking on it. Proboards is weird something. The problem is with the URL, not ProBoards. The single quote in a link is not standard syntax and the auto link thinks it is the end of the URL. The appropriate way to make a link with non-standard syntax is to use the [url)...[/url) tag (2nd left bottom button under "Add Tags"). I changed ] to ) in the URL example so it would show
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 4, 2007 15:05:40 GMT
Here is the image of N. ventricosa "porcelain clone" that Dave referred to earlier. Note the perisome does not connect and rise up towards the lid.
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