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Post by coldcoffee on Jun 25, 2011 3:35:19 GMT
Fyi, eBay user exotic-plants listed 10 sarracenia oreophila seeds for sale on eBay with no permit displayed. I filed a report with eBay.
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Post by nepenthes77 on Jun 25, 2011 11:43:08 GMT
coldcoffee,
Many things happen like this on ebay, It might still be there, but some time ago I found 10 seeds of a Sarracenia Alabamensis.
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Post by peterhewitt on Jun 25, 2011 13:23:22 GMT
Don't be so quick to freak out though, the seeds could very easily have come from cultivated plants, as is often the case on e-bay. I myself have bought S.Oreophila plants from TC sources and since I know the plants are artificially propagated, I don't have a problem with it. I also purchase N.Rajah from various TC sources with little extra paperwork taking place, but the same goes. I know they are cultivated plants.
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Post by coldcoffee on Jun 26, 2011 1:15:27 GMT
You guys may be right. Nonetheless, they really should consider posting their source to prevent people from freaking out.
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Post by nepenthes99 on Jun 26, 2011 1:29:02 GMT
I am pretty sure the seller lives somewhere in Europe, he sounds familiar. It would cost a lot to fly from Eurore to North America, therefore It would be unlogical to collect wild seed and sell it for a low price on ebay.
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Post by peterhewitt on Jun 26, 2011 11:12:14 GMT
In this case I would say the seeds are from cultivated plants, but this is not always the case. coldcoffee, thank you for being vigilant, even if these are from cultivated plants, at least someone is watching out!
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Post by brotherlymonkey on Jun 26, 2011 16:49:35 GMT
I am pretty sure the seller lives somewhere in Europe, he sounds familiar. It would cost a lot to fly from Eurore to North America, therefore It would be unlogical to collect wild seed and sell it for a low price on ebay. why couldn't he be simply paying someone to harvest seeds in the states? Not like the use of email and the post office is some archaic art
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Post by peterhewitt on Jun 26, 2011 17:49:22 GMT
There are thousands of S.Oreophila plants in cultivation, so the seeds could have come from anywhere. It is rather pointless to speculate and also unfair to demonise an e-bay seller,without strong proof of wrong doing. The seller should have mentioned the source of the seeds, if he is aware of their status. In the absence of that, we are just guessing.
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Post by Not a Number on Jun 26, 2011 20:45:32 GMT
It's my understanding that CITES appendix I species plants require a permit for the international commerce of the plants, all parts (including seeds, pollen and spores) and derivatives. If I'm not mistaken in order to get the permits you have to show that the plants are in cultivation. There are some exceptions such as Tissue Culture propagated plants shipped in the flask. The Endangered Species Act in the United States covers the Appendix I species and controls interstate (within the United States) commerce.
Just because a seller did not post that they have the permits doesn't mean they don't have them. Inquire first before accusing.
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Post by brotherlymonkey on Jun 26, 2011 22:23:00 GMT
There are thousands of S.Oreophila plants in cultivation, so the seeds could have come from anywhere. It is rather pointless to speculate and also unfair to demonise an e-bay seller,without strong proof of wrong doing. The seller should have mentioned the source of the seeds, if he is aware of their status. In the absence of that, we are just guessing. I agree that my point was pure speculation. But I'm just highlighting the fact that international commerce, especially concerning the sale of seeds, isn't very difficult in the age of the internet
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Post by coldcoffee on Jun 27, 2011 21:39:18 GMT
NaN that was what I had thought the CITES policy to be as well- but my familiarity with all the technicalities is a bit rusty. Afterall, doesn't ICPS require permits.
Speaking personally, I never once said they did not have permits. In fact, I never jumped to that conclusion. What I said was that they has S. Oreophila seeds without DISPLAYING a permit. I filed a report with eBay to investigate it. In their report I stated that S. Oreophila is an ESA/CITES protected species and that the seller did not list a permit in their listing.
Maybe I should have contacted them directly, usually I do. Didn't feel like it this time. If they have a permit they can given the number to eBay. No problem. But I felt a moral imperitive to let people here know that I saw it. Next time I will use nicer language or something.
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Post by coldcoffee on Jun 27, 2011 21:42:21 GMT
Fyi, the listing is still there, I assume eBay must have looked into it and ruled it was legit (not a safe assumption I know I am still not buying without seeing a permit).
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Post by Aidan on Jun 27, 2011 23:20:25 GMT
I assume eBay must have looked into it and ruled it was legit... Not a hope in hell that eBay have looked at the listing or in all probability, your report! Clearly illegal listings have been repeatedly reported any number of times in the past with absolutely zero effect. If a response is ever forthcoming it will likely be words to the effect that "eBay is merely the conduit for sales" and it is not down to them to police those sales.
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Post by nepenthes77 on Jun 28, 2011 0:53:00 GMT
If possible, please inform us of any feedback from eBay for your report.
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Post by peterhewitt on Jun 28, 2011 14:49:09 GMT
Please don't view any of my comments as criticism, most of us on the site are very interested and concerned about Carnivorous plant conservation. Unfortunately with the advent of Internet, controls and restrictions can be circumvented. Many people who grow and sell CITES listed plants on a largish scale, might not be bothered to complete the forms and pay the fee's for permits. Not good, but not earth shattering either.
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