Sarracenia oreophila, sandhill, Georgia.

[john]

I don't know if anybody can help me - I get a bit confused about the geology of Georgia and the habitats of S.oreophila.

I have in my collection a S.oreophila that came with the location "sandhill, Georgia.". I Have a web page for it:
www.johnjearrard.co.uk/sarraceniaceae/sarracenia/oreophila/o4pm/o4pm.html

As I understood it, the fall line runs east-west across the centre of Georgia, and the sandhills occur along the line and to the south - have I got that right?
I had preciously assumed that plants from Georgia all came from Towns Co. in the north, but if this is actually from a sandhill location, is that possible?
The only record from further south seems to be the dubious one from Taylor Co.
Has anybody got any comments that might clarify this issue?
(most of the information I have came from Don Schnell, "C.P. of the USA and Canada", 2nd Ed. Timber Press, 2002.)

[Michael Catalani]

I'm going to guess that its a mis-label, and might should read "Sand Mountain, Ga." The sand mountain area contains populations of S. oreophila, and stretches from Georgia into Alabama.


I personally believe that it is quite unlikely that S. oreophila existed outside of the Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia mountains. It appears to be a high elevation species.

There is compelling 1850's account from Neisler of plants much further south in the fall line of the sandhills in west central Georgia in Taylor Country. You can read about this on Meadviews site. www.pitcherplant.org/papers/Ararep.htm It certainly has made me scratch my head a few times and question whether or not it once had a much more southern range.

[john]

Thanks Michael - it is the Neisler account that leaves me with a question mark?
I nearly 'corrected' the label a few years ago when I got the plant, but decided to trust the source until I could confirm it was wrong. I thought I read in Schnell that the Sand Mountain population in Alabama didn't cross the line into Georgia - is that wrong? (sorry about my ignorance - I've never had the chance to see them in habitat).

[Michael Catalani]

john said:

I thought I read in Schnell that the Sand Mountain population in Alabama didn't cross the line into Georgia - is that wrong? (sorry about my ignorance - I've never had the chance to see them in habitat).

It was probably likely that the Alabama plants migrated from Georgia originally.

At one time it was believed that S oreophila was no longer extant in that area of Georgia, but there is at least one area that remains.

[av8tor1]

Michael,

what about "Jellico Mountain" (Indian Mountain) Tenn., I have often seen refs (fed and state endangered species listings) to a tiny population there...

I live in the Cumberland Valley (Ky) about 35 miles north of Jellico Mountain and long ago I can remember seeing some here (Daniel Boone National Forest)

but sadly I have not seen any in 30+ yrs now, but I have often wondered about Pine Mountain (Ky) or Black Mountain (Ky)

Butch

(BTW the argentii arrived safe and sound, thanks mate... very nice)

[Michael Catalani]

av8tor1 said:

Michael,

what about Jellico Mountain Tenn., I have often seen refs (fed and state endangered species listings) to a tiny population there...

I live in the Cumberland Valley (Ky) about 35 miles north of Jellico Mountain and long ago I can remember seeing some here (Daniel Boone National Forest)

but sadly I have not seen any in 30+ yrs now, but I have often wondered about Pine Mountain (Ky) or Black Mountain (Ky)

Butch

(BTW the argentii arrived safe and sound, thanks mate... very nice)

Hey Butch,

I believe that the area was probably in the historical range of S. oreophila. There was some speculation whether the S. oreophila collected from the area was planted there as a joke by one of the students of the man who discovered the plant.

Whether or not this was actually the case, I have little doubt that Eastern TN was at least in the historical range of S. oreophila. I still hold out some hope that a population will be re-discovered somewhere out that way.

I wish I lived closer to that part of the state. We often joke that the NE tip of TN is closer to Canada than it is to west TN where I live.

[av8tor1]

LOL, now right in the middle of jellico mountain they have built an exit off of I-75, now you have an adult book store, a fireworks store and a large church... all next door to each other

go figure LOL, gotta love this part of the world

now the one I saw all them years ago was definitely wild, I use to spend a whole lot of time in the woods... so I know first hand there were here at one time... or at least maybe an unknown lost oreo variant... at that time I didn't really pay much attention to it, I just went "huh.... imagine finding that here..." (young and dumb)

and yep, ive been back to the exact spot... its the middle of an ATV trail now

Butch

[meadowview]

Hi Folks:

The fall line Taylor County, Georgia record for Sarracenia oreophila is very solid. Not only do we have a first hand description of the discovery and features of the plant by Dr. Neisler (see our paper at www.pitcherplant.org/papers/Ararep.htm) but there are actually herbarium specimens sent by Dr. Neisler to Asa Gray (at the Gray herbarium). We have copies of these specimens and they are S. oreophila.

There were more fall line S. oreophila populations than just the Taylor County, GA record. Roland Harper, Edgar Wherry, and Fred Case all collected S. oreophila in Elmore County, Alabama from the early to mid 1900's. The Elmore County populations were pretty localized and not a lot of plants but they were there.

In addition, herbarium specimens labelled S. flava collected by Wilbur Duncan near Phenix City, Alabama (near Columbus, GA) in the 1950's and S.M Tracy near Macon in 1889 were also probably S. oreophila. The herbarium specimens are not conclusive since only pitchers were collected but subtlties of the leaves suggest S. oreophila. We have this range data included in the Neisler paper.

In short, S. oreophila was always extremely rare and localized in the fall line of Alabama and Georgia. This is the "Oh God pitcher plant" if it could be rediscovered.

I am interested in corresponding with the gentleman that may have seen S. oreophila in the Daniel Boone Forest of Kentucky. Please contact me at [e-mail].

Sincerely,

Phil Sheridan
Director
Meadowview Biological
Research Station

[av8tor1]

Email sent Phil,

Butch