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Post by Aidan on Nov 28, 2007 20:28:50 GMT
So.... I suppose these plants would be now be called "suspision" right? or how does that work? The cultivar description states: "In order to maintain the unique characteristics of the plant, reproduction must be achieved by vegetative methods only." Your plants may not therefore be labelled as being S. flava 'Suspicion'.
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Post by purpman on Nov 29, 2007 21:01:50 GMT
OK so its only vegetative reproductions the qualify.
That being the case, what other remarkable characteristics are there to this plant besides the fact that its antho free?
The reason I ask is that other named all green cultivars, for instance Green rosette and othello apply to any antho free plant of the species, whether seed raised or vegetative. Why is this not the case with suspicion?
CJM
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Post by Aidan on Nov 29, 2007 22:59:55 GMT
Carl - I believe that good individual plants need cultivar names and this ensures that we are all talking about the same plant.
For example, I currently grow three different anthocyanin-free clones of S. psittacina, two with location data. All could have the name 'Green Rosette' applied. To do so would I believe be a mistake, as in time it would lead to confusion and the loss of location data as plants are distributed amongst collectors under a single name.
Multiple plants being distributed under the same name may also lead to collectors who have seen and ordered one particular plant, being disappointed when in fact a different plant is delivered under the same name.
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toof
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Post by toof on Nov 30, 2007 2:04:36 GMT
Multiple plants being distributed under the same name may also lead to collectors who have seen and ordered one particular plant, being disappointed when in fact a different plant is delivered under the same name.[/quote]
If there are multiple clones that suit a cultivar's description, perhaps the plant in question isn't unique. A thorough description should prevent this, as is your cultivar description. I tend to side with having all "antho-free" flavas called, 'Suspicion.' Wonderful plant and certainly worth naming.
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Post by Aidan on Nov 30, 2007 2:37:41 GMT
If there are multiple clones that suit a cultivar's description, perhaps the plant in question isn't unique. I think that is largely down to the person authoring the description. If that description is so wide ranging as to encompass for example all all-green forms of a particular species, then it covers every plant that arises now or in future from the ten foot tall, vigorous monster to weakest, spindliest, most inbred example ever seen.
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Post by Dave Evans on Nov 30, 2007 4:16:13 GMT
Dear Aidan,
If I were you, I would cross those antho-free S. psittacina every which way. Never mind about the location data staying attached to the progeny. I'm not saying it is useless, but over emphasized. I would say that county resolution is plenty good enough to use for identifying Sarracenia. And each and every clone, regardless of location, can look pretty nice when grow well.
I'll have to read the description again, but what else is special about this clone-o-var S. 'Suspicion'? The photos I have seen of it are really top notch, BTW.
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Post by RL7836 on Nov 30, 2007 19:39:33 GMT
Gary, Might I suggest caution or possibly a re-wording with more specificity as to your meaning? Saying something is "not as good" is extremely nebulous and the sentence overall could be viewed be some as trying to incite bad feelings....hopefully not your intent.
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Post by wallsg7 on Nov 30, 2007 23:27:01 GMT
Ron your quite right.Post deleted.
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Post by Alexis on Nov 30, 2007 23:49:36 GMT
Anyway, what are we left trying to find now? An anthocyanin free oreophila could be tricky and will probably need to be created by some selfing as well.
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Post by purpman on Dec 1, 2007 17:57:56 GMT
Aidan Firstly, let me say your reasoning make sense. And honestly I hope you didn't think I was questioning your decision to have it only vegetatively reproduced either. I was just wondering if there was anything exceptional that would be lost with sexual reproduction. For instance, the flowers were unusually large, or the opening of the pitcher was particularly wide or something. Carl - I believe that good individual plants need cultivar names and this ensures that we are all talking about the same plant. To this statement I say I certainly agree with. Especially if there is room for variability within the description of the cultivar. For instance, appling the name "suspicion" to a particular clone of antho free flava I have would make NO sense. Its a small plant, only 12 inches, produces only 2 or 3 pitchers a year. Its quite pathetic, I'm planning on outcrossing it if it every flowers! It certainly would be wrong to apply that name to this plant. However, as far as cultivars go, I don't think location data should take precidence over the plant. Should two equally nice anto free plants from two locations be different cultivars, I don't think so... cutlivars tend to be bred for the nursey trade rather than location specific collector types, or if for collector types, it to appreciate the plant. So a particular selection of a species or wild plant might warrant a cultivar status, but I don't think its location data matters at that point. The plant is being named for its characteristics, not where it comes from. Using your example, I grow two antho free psitts, one from Florida and when from Alabama. Should the name "green rosette" apply to the two clones I have. I don't think so. The plant John Hummer applied the name to were the florida plants, in my estimation they are a far superior clone to the alabama plants... at least from my expienece. I find the florida plants much more robust and nicer looking! So as a collector, I'd own a green psitt from FL, a green psit from AL, and a green psitt "green rosetted". The location history of "green rosetted" wouldn't matter. I'd own it for what it is, a green psitt named "green rosetted" I hope that make some sense. Carl
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Post by Dave Evans on Dec 1, 2007 21:45:44 GMT
Carl, I hope you understand that even divisions from the same clone are subject to variation, especially over longer periods of time... Vigor can be influenced by many factors.
And when plants are named 'Green Rosette' I can tell you now, I'll not even think about using such lame names. Cultivars can be named for their area of origin, in the past common names and cultivars names were basically inter-changeable.
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toof
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Post by toof on Dec 4, 2007 0:03:07 GMT
Location information is of botanical significance, usually not horticultural significance. Noting different antho-free clones from different locals is worth mention in Botanical journals, where range and occurrence are important. Horticultural journals (thereby, cultivars) focus upon the uniqueness a plant may have from the typical. Vagueness in describing a cultivar could legitimately allow numerous clones to share the cultivar name. My personal thoughts are that 'Suspicion' could be reproduced sexually, as well. Stefan
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Post by Aidan on Dec 4, 2007 0:18:36 GMT
My personal thoughts are that 'Suspicion' could be reproduced sexually, as well. Stefan I've already addressed the point and am not going over the same ground all over again. Carl's description of his own plant simply reinforces that point. Whether you choose to agree or disagree with my reasoning, that is the way I chose to describe the plant and that folks is the way that it is.
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Post by pinglover on Dec 6, 2007 17:37:59 GMT
Santa baby, slip a 'Suspicion' under the tree, for me I've been an awful good girl Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight
Santa baby, an out-of-space N. ampullaria "Cantley's Red". too, deep red I'll wait up for you dear Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight
Think of all the fun I've missed Think of all the CP's that I haven't kissed Next year I could be oh so good If you'd check off my Christmas list Boo doo bee doo
Santa honey, I wanna "Pink Thing" and really that's Not a lot I've been an angel all year Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight
Santa cutie, there's one thing I really do need, a division of a "Snapping Turtle Lid" Santa cutie, and hurry down the chimney tonight
Santa baby, I'm filling my stocking with a duplex, and checks Sign your 'X' on the line Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight
Come and trim my Christmas tree with some decorations bought at Insektenfang's. I really do believe in you Let's see if you believe in me Boo doo bee doo
Santa baby, forgot to mention one little thing, a rare octopus plant, I don't mean a fake Santa baby, and hurry down the chimney tonight
Hurry down the chimney tonight Hurry down the chimney tonight
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Post by Brian Barnes on Dec 7, 2007 10:58:38 GMT
;D BEAUTIFUL!! i love it...I love it... ;D I want an antho-free Santa to come here too! And swing by Auyan Tepui while you're at it! Hey Bob, you would make a good....never mind.
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