Source for the history/origin of Drosera capensis cultivars?

[incidencematrix]

Greetings, all.  I am looking for an authoritative source for the history of the Drosera capensis variants now in cultivation. Some (e.g., "red," "Bains Kloof") appear to be traceable to particular locales, but it is unclear to me whether e.g. D. capensis "wide" emerged in cultivation or is reflective of a wild population. I've checked D'Amato and the CPN back issues, and have not so far found a systematic treatment of the issue. Pointers to (ideally citable) resources would be very welcome!  (I've also made this query on the ICPS Facebook page, so if I learn anything useful from that I'll post it to the thread.)

Thanks!

-Carter

[Joseph Clemens]

Drosera 'Albino' is the only registered cultivar I'm aware of, derived from Drosera capensis. And even its official description, published in "Savage Garden" does not mention it's being derived from Drosera capensis, and it doesn't need to, all the cultivar description needs, is to describe the distinguishing characteristics of the particular cultivar, that set it apart from other plants in the Drosera genus, and to have a photographic standard that defines the plant similarly, if the defining characteristics would be visible in a photograph.

All the other plants you are referring to, are simply other human attempts to differentiate some natural variation between individuals and populations of this species. They may also be published in the botanical literature, published when the species was formally described, making note of variations in the plant characteristics, through its range, if such a variation was known to the author(s).

[maiden]

Thanks for the info guys, i didnt know D. capensis 'alba' is a cultivar.

[hcarlton]

By that name it's not. The cultivar it's registered by is 'Albino', but everyone calls it "alba" because it's shorter, and still descriptive.

[Joseph Clemens]

Nov 21, 2014 1:25:03 GMT maiden said:

Thanks for the info guys, i didnt know D. capensis 'alba' is a cultivar.

Drosera capensis 'alba' is not a cultivar, it is a nomen nudum, as if I refused to use your given name, and stubbornly calling you simply "Person", instead. The registered cultivar is Drosera 'Albino', not Drosera 'alba'.

[maiden]

Ok... I didnt know that. I learn something tonight ! Im here for that
Thanks guys!

[Joseph Clemens]

I recommend checking out cultivars and registration.

[maiden]

Yeah i have to load that webpage more often!

[incidencematrix]

@jc: The reasons I suspect that some of these variants may be traceable to differences in ancestral population are (1) the fact that the phenotypic differences between an e.g. "wide" and "narrow" capensis greatly exceed the variation one normally sees in capensis offspring, and (2) those differences are strongly heritable. The offspring of my "wide" plants would not be mistaken for the offspring of my "narrow" plants, and vice versa. This would seem to suggest some non-trivial genetic distance between variants, presumably due to some combination of selective breeding and differences in their respective founding populations. (That heuristic is not conclusive, but given that we're talking about variation on several quantitative traits it is at least suggestive.)

It seems to be the case (as mentioned e.g. by Marcel van den Broek in response to my query on FB) that most of the capensis in cultivation today derive from a very small number of ancestral collections. If the sites whence those collections were taken were recorded, along with the characteristics of the plants in question, it might be possible to trace some of the current variants back to those original sites. (Or, alternately, to guess at which variants emerged later, as "Albino" reportedly did.) My hope has been that someone has written all this down somewhere. So far, I've not had any luck in obtaining definitive information.

-Carter

[Joseph Clemens]

But, incidencematrix, there is only, one cultivar derived from Drosera capensis. Considering that, how significant can this investigation be? Also, is this a botanically or horticulturally motivated quest, or both?

Have you checked out the references listed here -> CP Database - Drosera capensis?

My impression has been that, overall, botanists do not often give much attention to variations that many of we horticulturists find fascinating. Hence, the ISHS, cultivar registration system. There really isn't a corresponding system in botany.

I am disappointed that the cultivar registration system is so little utilized.

[marcel]

As I understand the quest is to establish the variation in the available plants and to see if this variation is traceble to variations in natural populations or that it is artificial.
Please note the difference between variation and cultivars.
It is always usefull to map the range of variation within a species, as it has potential botanical value. The usefullness of cultivars is mostly economic/horticultural.

Personally I share Joseph's disappointment that the cultivar registration system is in so little use, but perhaps not for the same reason.
Personally I think way to many plants get named cultivars that look to much alike and may or may not be stable (for the record, the ICPS only registers the names submitted if the meet the criteria and has no official opinion on what is good or not). However, IF you decide to name something a cultivar please take the trouble to register it so everybody can know what is going around and see if somebody has already named a flytrap without actual trapping structure or whatever.

[incidencematrix]

@jc: Yes, I am aware that only one cultivar is registered. I am not at present concerned with what has been formally registered. I am interested in the question (per Marcel) of whether some of the relatively distinct varieties observed in cultivation derive from different ancestral populations. (I am also not too troubled by whether this is a "significant" investigation. My interest is biological, but is at present more motivated by curiosity than anything else - and it does seem a shame that so little seems to be known about the history of one of the most widely cultivated carnivorous plant species!) I agree with you, BTW, that all of this would be easier if past growers of this plant had gone to more trouble to register/document the variants that they were growing. But given that we are where we are, I figure that there is no harm in poking around to see if anyone has any concrete information.

marcel: Agreed on all points!

[Joseph Clemens]

I was basically responding to the title of this thread, "Source for the history/origin of Drosera capensis cultivars?" You do specifically mention cultivars in the title, and not horticultural variations and how they relate to geographical/historical populations and collections. Have you checked out any of the documentation I linked to in an earlier post? I skimmed over it, years ago, and thought it might contain some of the information you're looking for.

[jwalker]

I found this quote and thought it was some of the information you looking for. Hope it helps

All D. capensis "red" in cultivation originate from seeds distributed by Eric Green (from the early 80ies on), which he collected from this population at Gifberg. As far as I know, this is the only known population of these red D. capensis, however I cannot exclude further populations in the red sandstone mountains of the northern Cape.

All the best,

Andreas