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Post by agamemnon on Feb 7, 2010 21:14:20 GMT
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Post by Aidan on Feb 7, 2010 23:59:57 GMT
Your link is currently broken.
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Post by agamemnon on Feb 8, 2010 7:23:51 GMT
I just repaired the link. Now is all right.
sincerely
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Post by ICPS-bob on Feb 8, 2010 17:41:00 GMT
So now the question is, which of the plants in cultivation - including U. 'Big Sister' and U. 'Enfant Terrible' - are U. reniformis and which are U. cornigera?
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Post by agamemnon on Feb 8, 2010 20:05:41 GMT
U. 'Enfant Terrible' - are U. reniformis and U. 'Big Sister' are U. cornigera.
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Post by fernandorivadavia on Feb 9, 2010 4:48:10 GMT
Hello everyone, Thanks for the article link Bob! It could well be that the new species U.cornigera was sitting "under our noses" for a long time -- that's usually the case with most new species that are "discovered". But I can't say I really buy the leaf morphology/ texture/ size as an important character, since this is such a widespread and variable species. Notice that he is only comparing populations from 3 places: Serra dos Órgãos, Itatiaia and Campos do Jordão! Although, Studnicka did great work studying the seed germination and morphology, he seems to have ignored the possibility that the U.reniformis from the Serra dos Órgãos is not a new species, but possibly a hybrid with U.nelumbifolia. The seed and germination characters of his U.cornigera fit very nicely a hypothetical hybrid scenario, being nicely intermediate between U.reniformis and U.nelumbifolia. U.nelumbifolia is abundant on the Serra dos Órgãos, but it is not present on the Serra da Mantiqueira, nor does it grow near the type location of U.reniformis at the Serra do Caraça. In cultivation, I don't believe this "U.cornigera" is common and I believe most people grow something closer to type U.reniformis. For reference, see below several flowers of U.reniformis, including from Itatiaia and Campos do Jordão (taken while I was with Studnicka, both mentioned in his article) and "U.cornigera" from the Serra dos Órgãos (taken a few days before/after Studnicka went there). "U.cornigera" Serra dos Órgãos, Rio de Janeiro: U.reniformis Itatiaia, Rio de Janeiro/ Mina Gerais/ São Paulo border: U.reniformis Campos do Jordão, São Paulo: U.reniformis Serra do Quiriri, Santa Catarina/ Paraná border: U.reniformis Serra do Corvo Branco, Santa Catarina/ Rio Grande do Sul border: And here's a pic of type U.reniformis at the Serra do Caraça, Minas Gerais: Here's U.nelumbifolia in cultivation (I can't remember if it's from the Serra dos Órgãos or from the Serra da Grama): U.nelumbifolia at the Serra da Grama, Minas Gerais: Best wishes, Fernando Rivadavia
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Post by fernandorivadavia on Feb 9, 2010 17:25:05 GMT
Ah, one more comment I forgot to make: sad that the holotype of U.cornigera was not deposited in Brazil, nor any isotypes...
If it helps future researchers, I do have a herbarium collection from the same spot where Studnicka studied U.cornigera (a day before I was there, I believe, we even photographed the same flowers), deposited at the University of São Paulo herbarium (SPF), which could be used as a reference:
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BRASIL, Rio de Janeiro, Município de Teresópolis, campos de altitude beirando a trilha para a Pedra do Sino, Parque Nacional da Serra dos Órgãos, c.2120m alt., 13/Nov./2005, F.Rivadavia et al. 2124 (SPF)
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Best wishes, Fernando Rivadavia
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