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Post by BarryRice on Apr 2, 2008 19:56:47 GMT
Hey Folks,
Slack claimed that hybrids with S. oreophila often had some kind of gigantism, that he didn't see with other species.
Has anyone observed this? I can't say I have.
Barry
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john
Full Member
Posts: 30
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Post by john on Apr 2, 2008 22:16:45 GMT
I would have said yes, but it is very subjective. Some hybrids just seem broader across the mouth than expected, though I don't think there is a lot of benefit - gigantism is perhaps a pitcher too far lol.
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Post by Michael Catalani on Apr 3, 2008 1:32:50 GMT
Most of my hybrids with S. oreophila displayed:
1) an overexaggeration of a feature of the other parent. For instance, if the other plant had a large lid, then crossing it with S. oreophila would often lead to a much larger lid. If the mouth opening was large and wide, then a cross with S. oreophila would tend to lead to a larger and wider mouth.
2) Hybrid vigor. They were rather fast and vigorous growers.
3) Larger sized plants than either of the parents.
S. flava and S. oreophila can produce very large, and even gargantuan sized hybrids when used in crosses with other plants. But it seems to be more consistent when S. oreophila is in the cross, and occurs rather rarely with S. flava. One of the largest Sarracenia pitcher, by volume, that I have seen was in the wild, was a back crossed S. flava rugelii x S. leucophylla.
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Post by brokken on Apr 3, 2008 6:59:10 GMT
This is my first full season growing S. oreophila x minor and S. oreophila x flava. I suppose I can post pics when my plants have full leaves. They're still at the flowering stage.
One observation that I can contribute is that compared to the previous year, the flava x oreo has put out huge leaves.
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Post by Alexis on Apr 3, 2008 19:45:35 GMT
Its hybrids don't seem to be particularly bigger or more vigorous than other crosses in my experience. I have a catesbaei x oreophila which is extremely vigorous, but it might not be due to oreophila.
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Post by brokken on Apr 5, 2008 17:52:58 GMT
Its hybrids don't seem to be particularly bigger or more vigorous than other crosses in my experience. I have a catesbaei x oreophila which is extremely vigorous, but it might not be due to oreophila. In my own (very limited experience) I can make the following observation: It appears that new pitchers are not as affected by cold as other species. This year has been particularly flippant temperature-wise. It has damaged some of the new pitchers that my Sarracenia are putting out - all except for those of oreophila and its crosses. It maybe coincidence, but I am of the belief that its oreo-counterpart affords the hybrid a certain cold-resistance. |
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Post by sunbelle on Apr 18, 2008 15:46:08 GMT
We have several of Philcula's oreo hybrids and they are vigorous brutes: wide, hungry looking pitchers. Overall, our observations are the same as Mike Catalani.
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Post by rco911 on Apr 19, 2008 21:44:28 GMT
I agree with both sunbelle and Michael -- man, sometimes when oreo is involved you get hungry looking things! For example -- S. moorei "big red" (or royal ruby, not sure what the status is at this point) and also an S. oreo x s. moorei "big red"... see below...
S. moorei "big red" with an oreophila... |
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Post by brokken on Apr 23, 2008 21:38:26 GMT
Here's a side by side comparison:  The largest pitchers are those of oreophila x flava. By contrast we have flava var ornata and atropurpurea (still young pitchers, so not much color yet), but the pitchers do seem to have greater vigor than the pure species. |
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Post by rco911 on Apr 24, 2008 1:41:44 GMT
--- slightly off topic but the other thing I notice with oreo hybrids is great color!! I know that Peter D'amato references this in his book to and I've experienced it in varying degrees in my collection - some oreo hyrids more so than others...
Great photo brokken, and great looking plants!
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Post by Alexis on Apr 24, 2008 18:06:51 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see a leucophylla x flava cross being as tall, and taller than the pure species. Is the height of that hybrid just due to hybrid vigour, or the fact oreophila is in the cross?
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Post by brokken on Apr 24, 2008 21:56:47 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see a leucophylla x flava cross being as tall, and taller than the pure species. Is the height of that hybrid just due to hybrid vigour, or the fact oreophila is in the cross? It's hard to say if the additional vigor and height are caused by heterosis rather than the oreophila influence. Like I said: I really don't have enough experience to say one way or another. I'm only posting the results of growing my one sample so others can chime in if they've experienced similar results with oreo crosses. I purchased this plant last year at around this time and the maximum size of the pitchers was probably around 8 inches or so. It seems to have done remarkably well since I planted it. |
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Post by loakesy on Apr 27, 2008 18:28:35 GMT
I have 3 year old seedlings of S. purpurea ssp. purpurea f. heterophylla that are putting out new leaves which are about 1 inch long.
I also have 2 year old seedlings of S. oreophila x purpurea ssp. purpurea f. heterophylla which are producing leaves which are up to 7 inches long.
I'm convinced!
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Post by wmgorum on May 1, 2008 21:20:20 GMT
I have an S. oreophila x rubra gulfensis and the plant had massive pitchers last year. It's blooming for the first time this year so I'm curious to see how big the pitchers are. Last year, they were easily a 12 inches high and about 3/4 of an inch across if I remember correctly. I wish I had taken pictures for comparison purposes.
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