Shelves and benches

[pinglover]

We have begun the clearing of the site for my new greenhouse and the excavators will be coming in two weeks. It's my first permanent greenhouse. I'm really excited. I don't know how long it will take to get it up because we are dependent upon so many contractors getting in to do their thing and we are a small project comparatively speaking but I would like to hope it would be up complete with gas, electric, and water running to it within the next 8 weeks or so.

Soon I will need help with selecting misters and such but currently I have a need for help with benches and shelves.

This is a small greenhouse and is only 13' x 25'. It will primarily be used for Sarracenia. I could also use some help with designing the interior space. I have a gas heater and a waste oil heater plus a swamp cooler on the way to me and those will need floor space and I'm sort of a small person so I don't need a lot of aisle space but I would need to be able to move around in the greenhouse. I'm really no good at design. I've got the basics but am to the stage where I need to focus on accessories.

That being said, any help with US sources for shelving and benches would be greatly appreciated. I don't want any shelves or benches made out of wood. Has anyone found any competitive pricing out there on practical/functional benches and shelving?

[Clint]

I like those giant plastic (really thick, heavy plastic) shelving units they make for garages and stuff at home depot.

www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678&categoryID=502362

They also have an 18 inch width one for 10 dollars cheaper, but if you have the space I'd go with the former. If you were looking for something shorter, you can take them apart and make them whatever height you want.

[pinglover]

I can't get a peek at what you are suggesting, it gave me this message-
The product you are trying to view is not currently available.

[Clint]

Yeah, since the URL is so long you'd have to copy and paste the whole thing, including the unhighlighted text into your browser.

[pinglover]

Ok, I'll try again.

[Michael Catalani]

Which type of greenhouse are you building? (I may have missed it in another post, if so, sorry.)

If you go with metal benches, you're likely to find that, for the most part, they come standard in 4' and 6' widths. The lengths are usually 8' for a full bench, or 4'-5' for benches that attach one side to the greenhouse hoops. (These benches are normally available from the greenhouse company itself.)

Although the 4' widths would give you the appearance of having a 5' aisle, this really depends on where the benches hit the side of the greenhouse, and how far in the bows have come at the selected height of the bench. Lower greenhouses (8'-9') might only have a 3' aisle space with two 4' wide x 3' tall benches because the bows have curved in by a foot on each side at this height. So the 4' benches may actually work out well for your greenhouse. You can also bench the back wall of the greenhouse.

As far as the layout of equipment, you really don't want to install the swamp cooler until you know your bench height and layout. If the benches are going from the front wall all the way to the back wall, then the size and placement of the swamp cooler has to be taken into consideration. Ideally, you would want some of the cooling pad just below the bench height for maximum cooling, but the length of the cooling pad may interfere with the benches, and the swamp cooler may need to be just higher than the benches to get the benches to fit wall to wall. And if you bench the back wall, you'll need to keep this in mind as well since the bench will certainly be in front of the swamp cooler.

Some metal benches attach to the greenhouse hoops, so if you have to shorten a bench because the swamp cooler is in the way, you'll be backing it up 4'-5' on both sides. Standard sized full benches don't attach to the hoops, but they usually only come in 8' lengths, so you'd lose 8' of bench top on both sides if you have to back up from the wall because the swamp cooler is in the way.

But you don't just want to put the swamp cooler arbitrarily high either, because this really cuts down on it's ability to cool at the plant root level.

Try to locate your heater away from the swamp cooler, as it can rust some of the components due to the extremely wet conditions around it. The swamp cooler would normally go along the back wall opposite of the front door. The front wall would contain the door and exhaust fan. I would also suggest mounting the heater on this side if possible. This is really where I wanted my heater to go, but my greenhouse only has a 10' height. The heater hanger bars drop about 2' feet from the top of the greenhouse, and then the heater is 2'-3' in height, which will put the heater at the perfect height to knock myself out by turning around and walking right into it. So I had to install it on the back wall side. I have to replace the thermocouple about every year because the air is so wet near the swamp cooler.

If your heaters are floor models, then it will probably be easy to locate them under the benches on the front side of the house, away from the swamp cooler.


I've used both wood and aluminum/steel benches. They both have their merits. My metal benches look as new as the day I installed them nearly 10 years ago. I used wood benches years ago for Sarracenia and other North American CP, because I could easily build a giant tray system for the plants.

Right now, I'm using kids pools located on top of the expanded metal benches for Sarracenia which holds the pots and allows me to keep the water levels high. Its not easy to change the metal bench itself to become a tray system. They only have a 1" or so lip around edge.

Expanded metal benches are expensive. The expanded metal itself costs about $100 for an 8' section in 4'-6' widths. A 4'x8' metal bench with expanded metal top costs about $140. They will last a long time and look good, though. You'd be looking at $800-$900, not including shipping, for metal benches for your sized greenhouse.

farmtek.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&productId=30306

Or you can use a poly-plastic bench top which costs about half as much as expanded metal.

farmtek.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&productId=30302


I'd be careful using any type of plastic shelving or benches that doesn't have extreme UV protection built in. They probably will not last long in a greenhouse environment. My greenhouse poly plastic has built in UV protection, but I still have to replace the kid pools every 3 years due to them becoming brittle. Standard plastic shelving made for a garage will probably deteriorate in less time than that out in the open sun. I know you don't want wood, but I'd go with wood over plastic shelving because it will simply last much longer.

[pinglover]

Here is the exact greenhouse my husband bought for me-
www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&productId=10345&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&pageId=ItemDetail&isDoc=N

It is going to be on concrete complete with floor drains. I think the concrete is going to extend out from the front doors by about 4' so I can position two large concrete urns on either side.

This is one style I was considering in an eighteen foot length w/ the purlins,
www.benches.usgr.com/benches_metal.html
It's galvanized steel.

Here's another I was considering for the other side-
www.greenhousestuff.com/benches.htm

I'm really over my head selecting accessories. Your comments have me on circuitry overload right about now. It sounds as if you have a greenhouse and know what you are doing. I'm in the Midwest, would you feel comfortable just telling me if the styles above are ok? I'm not all that concerned about the pricing of the shelving and benches as long as it is competitive and will meet my needs. I think I desperately need help with lay out.

Thanks ever so much for your comments.

[matti]

I wouldn't be fooled into paying $100 for a 8' section of shelving, heck all the steel for my greenhouse frame cost me $250 (65 meters) the GH is about the same size as yours, I'd be sure mine is lots higher, I personally would buy all of the steel my self and fabricate it (save so much money) but I'm not sure what your husbands metal working skills are like, maybe you could draw a diagram of what you would want and I could give you some instruction?. I am using pressure treated timber for my benches, easyer and I don't need a truck to deliver it.

And another question, why do you want a misting system for Sarracenia's?.

[pinglover]

We have children, both of us work, and we're going to be gone a lot this summer. We are not in a position to create shelves or benches let alone put up the greenhouse due to our schedules. We hired people who will assemble the greenhouse and we'll have to buy shelves and benches.

Wood is a no go for me for a few reasons. Although the greenhouse will mostly be used for sarracenias, I want it set up with a misting system at the same time the plumber comes to run water to the greenhouse. For small jobs such as this, it is difficult getting quality tradesmen to come out to work. I also grow orchids and a few Nepenthes. Come to think of it, I grow quite a few tropicals. Not that they'll be in that greenhouse, but they might at some time in the future and I don't want to have to call out a plumber again.

Not in a position to draw a diagram of what I want because I do not know what I want but thanks for your kind offer.

[Michael Catalani]

pinglover said:

Here is the exact greenhouse my husband bought for me-
www.farmtek.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&productId=10345&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&pageId=ItemDetail&isDoc=N

It is going to be on concrete complete with floor drains. I think the concrete is going to extend out from the front doors by about 4' so I can position two large concrete urns on either side.

This is a nice greenhouse. The concrete floor is a really good addition. I'm not sure if you can use tap water or not, but if you can, try to get a water supply run into the house thru the foundation when it is poured.

This is one style I was considering in an eighteen foot length w/ the purlins,
www.benches.usgr.com/benches_metal.html
It's galvanized steel. [\quote]

I like this setup a lot because it allows for mixed plant sizes, and will accomadate hanging plants as well.

Here's another I was considering for the other side-
www.greenhousestuff.com/benches.htm
[\quote]

You may get a better price on these from farmtek. I do like the idea of a rack system on one side of the greenhouse, and a flat bench on the other side. A two level bench will provide storage on the bottom rack.

I'm really over my head selecting accessories. Your comments have me on circuitry overload right about now. It sounds as if you have a greenhouse and know what you are doing. I'm in the Midwest, would you feel comfortable just telling me if the styles above are ok? I'm not all that concerned about the pricing of the shelving and benches as long as it is competitive and will meet my needs. I think I desperately need help with lay out. [\quote]


First, I think the greenhouse is great. The polycarbonate covering is very nice, and this unit would look great in a subdivision with picky neighbors. It will also decorate and landscape well.

I like your thoughts on bench layout, with mixed shelving benches on one side, and a single or dual level flat bench on the other side. You'll want to make sure you position the tall shelving benches so that they will not block the sun to the flat benches on the other side. Fortunately, these benches are movable, so you can always move them in the future if you want to change your layout.


COOLING ACCESSORIES

Exhaust Fan - The most important cooling accessory will be the exhaust fan. One will be needed for the summer, without question.

Vent - You will also need one or two large vents along the back wall for the exhaust fan to pull air thru. If you want to also use a swamp cooler, then you would use one long vent. If you dont use a swamp cooler, then you could use one or two gravity close vents. Gravity close vents dont need power, they open by the pull of the air from the force of the exhaust fan, and then gravity closes the vents when the fan turns off.

Your greenhouse comes with 4-6 roof vents. These are good for natural ventilation for fall, winter, and spring, but they wont cut it for summer cooling.

Swamp Cooler - This will significantly cool down a greenhouse during the summer, as well as rehumidify the air. If the natural humidity in your area is low, or if the outside temps exceed 95F on a regular basis during the summer, then I highly suggest a swamp cooler.

HAF Fans - These are circulation fans. While not necessarily used for cooling, the do stabilize the air and provide air movement. These are normally set to shut off while the exhaust fan is running as to not interfere with the exhaust flow. These fans also circulate air for a heater. farmtek.com/farm/supplies/prod1;ft1_cooling_exhaust_fans-ft1_circulation_fans;58fddfa3.html


HEATING ACCESSORIES

You mention a gas heater. For a temperate house, only occasional nighttime heating will be required. Rarely would you need daytime heat. This means a small heater will get you by. Farmtek can help make sure you have the appropriate sized heater for your greenhouse and application.

WATER ACCESORIES

Spigot Connection - I can use my tap water, so I have run a water line into my greenhouse that ends in a spigot that I can attach a garden hose to. It's not absolutely necessary if you have an outdoor faucet near the greenhouse, but if it's not a lot of trouble to run a water line to the greenhouse, I would opt for it.

Misters - I have found that they aren't really needed for a temperate greenhouse that has a swamp cooler. Nepenthes and orchids love misters, though. So if you want to grow these, its not a bad idea.

CONTROLLER

You will need a controller or greenhouse computer to control when things like vents open, the exhaust fan turns on, the swamp cooler starts, etc. If you run misters, you may want it to control when they turn on as well. If you only have an exhaust fan with gravity vents, then a simple thermostat would do the job. But once you start adding motorized vents and a swamp cooler, then you need to look into the controllers that can handle multiple devices.

These are some of the accessories you'll need to consider. The exhaust fan is mandatory, everything else is based upon preference, your area, and what you will be growing.

[pinglover]

Hey Michael, thank you very much.

I can't use tap water but I have an RO system and I collect rain water.

I'm in zone 5, we have a span of about a month in or so when day time air temps are in the single digits to teens. Night time temps can and frequently do dip well below 0. Hence the back up gas heater.

I'll have to go dig up our receipt to get specifics on what we ordered but if memory serves me, and it doesn't much lately, the heater was a gas Pro-Com 30000 BTU. We ordered the optional base as well as some sort of a blower and vent to the outside. There was an optional blower control and some sort of an optional durostat thermostat that went with it. The waste oil heater came from a different manufacturer and that supposedly has all the bells and whistles on it. Supposedly, the gas heater is the back up but that will depend on several factors.

I know we ordered at least one 20" exhaust fan with an automatic motor and shutter. Does that sound right or do we need to order another one?

There is at least one 18" aluminum shutter. Do we need another one? I think we ordered a motor for the shutter too.

There's some sort of a digital temperature humidity meter. I don't think it is computerized. Do I need to buy a different one?

The polycarbonate was not my first choice. I wanted a particular type of glass but the HO Association disallows glass greenhouses these days because of hail. I understand the theory behind this restriction. We've had some violent hail storms that have broken out glass to greenhouses and some people never repaired them. They look pretty nasty with weeds growing up inside them. The polycarbonate has greater load bearing capacity for snow too. Glad we bought the right material by accident.

We ordered two circulation fans. I don't recall the size of them but one was a floor model and one was a ceiling mount. Supposedly they can handle more humidity. Something to do with the bearings in them.

I forgot the manufacturer of the swamp cooler. It's supposedly a good one.

The misting system I wanted installed now even though I currently don't have a need for it. I was figuring I'd save money on installation if I had it installed at the same time I had the water line run from the house. That water line is over 100'.

I will draw out some sort of a diagram later on tonight and send it to you. I'm not artistic in the least so forgive the rudimentary sketch in advance. I have to go back outside and plant some more.

I sent you an e-mail late last night. Please check your spam account when you have a spare moment.

Say Michael, thank you ever so much for your thoughtful response. I know how long it takes to reply with detail such as what you provided.

[pinglover]

I am all taken care of.

I am going with 100% of what Michael set up for me. Everything from type and placement of the floor drains to height and placement of the shutters, exhaust fans, and circulation fans to location of the heaters and swamp cooler. I'm also going with his computerized contacter (sp?) panel with the relay and junctions as well as his floor plan and every bench and shelf style and size recommended. Come to think of it, I'm knocking out the misting system per his suggestion and waiting for the next generation of misters to come out... he saved me some money!

Oh my word, I didn't have to do a thing other than sit back and take notes. I love these forums!