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Post by BarryRice on Apr 13, 2007 23:51:20 GMT
Hey Steve,
Yeah. Well, with any strategic effort at conservation you want to set up some kind of measure to determine if what you're doing makes sense. The point of the distribution program was to get a lot of plants out there to folks. And we distributed them in pairs so that folks were more likely to be able to do crossing. I've been hoping we would be inundated by seeds this last year.
I note that our plants here at UCD from the same donation program were flowering last year. So I'd hope to see seeds being donated to the seedbank this year....
Barry
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Post by BarryRice on Apr 9, 2007 15:34:40 GMT
Regarding the ICPS permits, we currently hold only one, and that is to distribute seed via the seedbank within the USA. The permit covers all T&E species (S. alabamensis, S. oreophila, S. jonesii, P. ionantha). Technically, since all our seeds are from cultivated sources for these species, we don't need a permit for P. ionantha (it is only "Threatened" and not "Endangered") but I have it listed on our permits anyway.
In the past we also had a permit to distribute live plants of Sarracenia within the USA, as part of a rare plant distribution program. I specifically requested this permit to be short term (to make it more palatable and perhaps more likely to be granted). This permit has long since expired. I'm thinking that in a few years of doing another live plant distribution, but I'm not sure if I will because I haven't been seeing seeds from plants from the last distribution getting donated to the ICPS seed bank.
Cheers
Barry
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Post by BarryRice on Apr 6, 2007 18:16:47 GMT
Hi Mike,
That would be cool. You could post what you find here, and we can all have a look at it.
Barry
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Post by BarryRice on Apr 3, 2007 0:48:56 GMT
Hey Folks,
The ICPS currently has permits from the US Fish & Wildlife service that allow the ICPS to distribute the seeds of federally endangered pitcherplants via its seed bank, i.e. S. alabamensis, S. jonesii, S. oreophila.
In order to ship such seeds internationally, we would require CITES permits. This is simplified somewhat by the fact that when the seed bank distributes seeds of such species, they must be from cultivated sources.
I do not know if the seed bank could get a blanket CITES permit that would require only year-end reporting of the activities of the permit, or if it would require permits for each and every tiny seed bank transaction involving listed species.
Obviously, if it were the latter, it would pretty much kill the idea unless we wanted to consider once-annual shipments of a large amount of seed to certain designated partners in other countries.
I don't have time to investigate this. Does anyone want to investigate this, so we can consider expanding the seed bank reach to members not living in the USA?
Cheers
Barry
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 12, 2007 17:30:24 GMT
Hey Folks, When I talk about ICPS "policy," I mean those things that the ICPS governing board has voted on and approved. The only conservation policy that the ICPS board has approved is its statement on seed collection for the seed bank. This is language that I drafted. Before submitting it to the ICPS board I sent this to many other folks I know: people in other plant societies, in Heritage Programs, agencies like Fish & Wildlife Service, and conservation workers. The final draft is at: www.carnivorousplants.org/statements/seedcollect.htmlIf you have any comments about this policy, I'd be happy to see them posted. The Imperiled CP species list is probably in need of a revision. Any comments on that?
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 22, 2007 1:05:58 GMT
Wow.
In the face of eventual habitat destruction, which is the case all too often, this kind of relationship-building is amazingly productive. Fabulous!
So often, conservation is characterized (and thus easily marginalized) as greenies chaining themselves to bulldozers. Working with industry, before the conflict becomes critical, is far more productive.
Great success story.
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 16, 2007 15:39:04 GMT
OK, so I'll make a call out to any landowners in the SE USA that have populations of Sarracenia on your property.
I'd like to set up an experiment, a sound and scientific experiment in which we take a statistically significant number of plants IN THE WILD, and remove a single growth crown from the plant. I'd like to measure mortality of the remaining plant, and compare that to mortality of a control group. It would be nice to have some science to back up statements about the plant surviving the division process.
Yes, I know that I can take a cultivated plant and tear it to bits, and each bit will survive. But that's different from the wild. For example, it might be that by mucking around with plants you get enough human scent on the rhizome that curious and hungry raccoons dig up the rhizome after you leave. Or salt hungry porcupines destroy the rhizome.
Anyone got a lot of Sarracenia on your property?
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 15, 2007 18:15:25 GMT
Purpman makes an excellent point, when he asks "How do you think all the great variation in the carnivorous plant world came into collections in the first place." (Remember, though, we're specifically talking about plant collection, not seed collection.)
However, I think its also important to bear in mind that we're living in a changing world. I think---viewing from the lens of year 2007---that back in the 1970s, CP enthusiasts were having less impact when they were collecting plants. But in 2007, we face a different situation.
I do think that there is a place for appropriate collection of plants for horticultural purposes. (Is it shocking to hear me say this?) But such practices should be done in a way so as not to be harmful to wild populations of plants. For entities such as new species being discovered or not in cultivation, simple rules such as used in scientific work might be applicable, such as the 1-in-20 collection rule I use when collecting Utricularia for scientific purposes (and I don't collect if there are fewer than 20 plants).
But what does one do when a single clone that is encountered in the wild has special attributes? Collect a growth tip? But will that damage from your knife cause mortality of the plant? How do you ensure that six other people don't take cuttings from that plant, too?
So I restate my premise, that I think that there is a place for appropriate collection of plants for horticultural purposes. But what are those guidelines? I've never codified them in a way that I think is consistent and appropriate, so I've never collected live plants for horticulture. But I think that guidelines would be useful.
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 14, 2007 17:30:21 GMT
I'm wondering, though, about the third category. This is the HARD category, but a very real one.
C)Collecting for horticulture
This is sometimes done upon first discovery (or rediscovery of a species)----Drosera meristocaulis or various pygmy/tuberous Drosera, for examples. But it is also done when a sport is detected of even a commonly cultivated species. I know I'd be thinking of my legal and ethical options if I found a red-flowered U. subulata!
To be really helpful, such a set of guidelines would cover these sorts of situations.
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 12, 2007 17:38:07 GMT
Hey Folks, You've heard it a bazillion times. Live plant collection is not justified about 99% of the time. But what constitutes 1%? And why do people say you shouldn't field collect, but have no problem doing so if they're collecting for an herbarium? The reality is that sometimes, people do field collect, and I think with validity. I've thought about writing up ICPS policy to act as guidance in such situations, but every time I've considered the possible political backlash, I decided to do something safer, like stick my hand in a blender. Any thoughts or suggestions on what should go in such a policy statement? I'm thinking I'd use the seed collection policy as a starting point... www.carnivorousplants.org/statements/seedcollect.html
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 9, 2007 18:35:23 GMT
The ICPS has, for several years, sponsored conservation work being done by Atlanta Botanical Garden. We can discuss this work here. Please remember not to identify sites by name, if you know them.
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 9, 2007 18:33:22 GMT
The ICPS has sponsored conservation work at a site in Alabama. We can discuss this site here. Please remember not to identify this site by name, if you know it. We cannot give poachers information about this site, and undo the conservation gains we have contributed to.
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 9, 2007 18:31:04 GMT
The ICPS has sponsored conservation work at a site in Louisiana. Let's discuss this site and the work done there!
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 17, 2007 0:22:22 GMT
Hey Ron, Absolutely. My intention is to write an intro summary to each one of these discussions, to give folks some news on just what's being done. Time, time, time! Where's the time? B
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Post by BarryRice on Mar 9, 2007 18:29:19 GMT
The ICPS has, for several years, sponsored conservation work at two sites in North Carolina. We can discuss them here. Please remember not to identify these sites by name, if you know them. We cannot give poachers information about these sites.
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