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Post by gymnamphora on Dec 5, 2007 2:27:56 GMT
Comparison between... Whole plant N.adrianii  N.spathulata (BE)  Lower pitcher N.adrianii  N.spathulata (BE)  Leaf attachment and stem of lower part. N.adrianii  N.spathulata (BE)  To be continued.... |
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Post by Sockhom on Dec 7, 2007 23:55:56 GMT
Very interesting Adrian.
Could you please explain us the differences between both plants?
Thanks a lot.
François.
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Post by Dave Evans on Dec 13, 2007 2:01:55 GMT
Hello François,
I think that is Adrian's point. What is the difference? None which I can see... While N. spathulata is mostly terrestrial growing, N. adrianii is mostly epiphytic. However, they are both home in mossy forest so the main difference would seem to be their ecology, but I'm not sure how important that is with regard to maintaining them as separate species...
Also, there is only one clone of N. spathulata in cultivation (or at least widespread cultivation) so basically every one who has N. spathulata has the same plant everyone has=no diversity. On the other hand N. adrianii has many clones in cultivation which is really nice. If I could, I would collect seed from more colorful plants of N. spathulata so this species could also have a decent showing of diversity in cultivation. Perhaps this has already been done and new clones are already in the pipeline so-to-speak.
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Post by phissionkorps on Dec 13, 2007 10:12:09 GMT
IMO, not very. While there are certainly different species the same genus (animals or plants) that have different ecology, I doubt the ecology was a large factor in pushing them to species status. After all, think of domestic dogs and humans...
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Post by Sockhom on Dec 14, 2007 11:05:28 GMT
Hello François, I think that is Adrian's point. I'm not sure about that Dave. This species was named after Adrian himself (Adrian Yusuf). I don't think he would have agreed if he thought those two plants were the same. Let's wait for his answers. I can't see any difference either hence my initial question. François Mey. |
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Clint
Full Member
Posts: 808
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Post by Clint on Dec 14, 2007 15:22:12 GMT
In N.adrianii I see a flared, more horizontal petiole attachment, while in N. spathulata (BE) appears to have a more vertical, almost "cupped" attachment. I'm not saying that warrants a distinction between the two (I believe they are the same species) but I'm just saying I DO see a difference (besides color) in the above pictures. I don't have experience with either of these plants, so it could just be these two clones above, but I DO see a difference in Gymnamphora's (very nice!) plants.
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Post by Dave Evans on Dec 14, 2007 17:17:41 GMT
Dear Clint and François,
Well, that is only a sample of two plants. Considering how you can easily find more variation within almost any population of plants (like Ron mentions, though not so clearly), I don't consider the differences I can see to be related to different species, but because they are different individuals.
I don't have much opinion one way or the other, whether they should be one species or two. I haven't read much about either species. Since N. spathulata has such a poor showing in cultivation, I have not had much interest it in and have been focusing on other species which I can actually see and review several or many different clones.
Adrian, congratulations on finding this new species, or very interesting and colorful subspecies.
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Post by sarracenialover on Dec 26, 2007 13:36:18 GMT
Interesting, I didn't know those two were so closely related.
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