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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 16, 2007 0:37:42 GMT
There are several species that do NOT produce prehensile tendrils (which to my recollection, has yet to be documented). In Borneo, they are N. villosa, N. veitchei, and N. clipeata, in the Philippines, we have N. truncata, N. merilliana, (and I'm not sure about N. argentii).
Perhaps we can start a thread about other species that can go into flower without producing a single climbing, prehensile tendril with images.
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Clint
Full Member
Posts: 808
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Post by Clint on Apr 16, 2007 2:17:34 GMT
Well, N. campanulata (that I'm readily looking for by the way) doesn't exit the rosette stage of life so I'd imagine it doesn't produce prehensile tendrils. I can't confirm this, as I cant find one You have a real knack for noticing things lol. I would have never noticed this.
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Post by stevestewart on Apr 16, 2007 21:17:30 GMT
Nepenthes argentii is also not supposed to have a climbing stage. In the notes about N. argentii, Jebb & Cheek mention that "N. argentii differs from N. bellii in the lack of climbing habit and the subpetiolate, oblaceolate leaves with truncate apices."
I have seen photographs of beautiful plants supposed to be, and look very similar to N. argentii, that show a distinct prehensile curl. My plants of this species have never formed any prehensile tendrils, but I have only one clone and no greenhouse at present, which could play a significant role in suppressing genetic expression of such a feature.
Take care, Steve Stewart
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Post by Michael Catalani on Apr 16, 2007 22:23:41 GMT
I have seen photographs of beautiful plants supposed to be, and look very similar to N. argentii, that show a distinct prehensile curl. I have seen some photos on Borneo Exotics site which also looked like the plant was climbing, and one of the tendrils had a kink in it. My N. argentii's immediately thrusted their tendrils into the soil, and would emerge some ways away from the plant and develop a pitcher. (sometimes partially submerged in the soil)
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Post by glider14 on Apr 18, 2007 3:13:16 GMT
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 18, 2007 12:59:51 GMT
According to John Turnbull, the area in the Surgao Penn, where he observed several large isolated populations of N. merrilliana, none had perhensil tendrils, and several were in full flower, or with old racemes; (the same with N. truncata), he did mention that he found several sites where he susspected that hybrid populations existed as logging made these sites more accessable, and the high traffic disturbances resulted in gene pool contamination, (again, the same with N. truncata).
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Post by Dave Evans on Apr 19, 2007 22:58:26 GMT
Dear Rich, Well, I think the situation with regards to prehensile tendrils is more complicated than how it is described below: There are several species that do NOT produce prehensile tendrils (which to my recollection, has yet to be documented). In Borneo, they are N. villosa, N. veitchii, and N. clipeata, in the Philippines, we have N. truncata, N. merrilliana, (and I'm not sure about N. argentii). Actually, what we see in N. merrilliana, is non-prehensile tendrils in the rosette stage, but prehensile tendrils during the climbing stage. This pattern is shown by N. albomarginata and several other species also. Non-climbing species will probably have less need for prehensile tendrils. N. veitchii is a different beast, instead of prehensile tendrils, the whole plant is 'prehensile' and molds itself onto the trunks of trees, instead of tying individual leaves onto the branches of smaller bushes in similar fashion to most other climbing Nepenthes. As a general rule, any species of Nepenthes which grows epiphytically or climbs onto other plants, like bushes, will have prehensile tendrils, unless they find some other method of securing themselves to their host plants. Has N. clipeata given up prehensile tendrils? It looks that way, but how many people actually grow it out into the 'climbing' stage? I personally believe this species has traded prehensile tendrils for being able to survive on the edge of a cliff. So far the only species I can put on this list include: N. anamensis N. clipeata N. campanulata N. truncata N. villosa While these species generally don't attach themselves to other plants, the upper growth, when present, still show coiling tendrils, so it is still possible for these species to show prehensile tendrils in the right conditions... For example, N. villosa doesn't grow very tall in nature, but what if was given different conditions and could grow taller, would it produce prehensile tendrils? If it and N. edwardsiana are each other's closest relatives, I would be inclined to think it could. Dave Evans
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 20, 2007 0:46:35 GMT
Dave, N. ampullaria is quite prehensile, and often aborts pitcher production in the wild as is climbs its way through the canopy, I have also seen N. ampullaria in prehensile tendril grown in a greenhouse in Long Island. I'm not familiar with N anamensis, but N. rajah is also quite prehensile as it goes into flower, and there are photograph that show this. Also, not familiar enough with N. campanulata either. The identifying feature is the presence of inflorescence without the presence of prehensile tendrils.
The 180 degree leaf rotation on N. veitchii, and the leaf's tendency to curl backwards, causing it to embrace the trunk of a tree is unique to this species.
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Post by Dave Evans on Apr 20, 2007 22:11:11 GMT
Hi Rich, Here is a photo of a N. burbidgeae: While not prehensile, you can see how the tendril molded itself to the shape of the pot so it holds the growing pitcher in the correct position. Would this not be the same basic ability which also allows the tendrils to attach to branches and other holds? See the tendril on the right? It goes straight down. However, it did not grow that way. While growing with the tendril getting longer, it was moving here and there, only straighting downward right before the pitcher started to inflate. So before the pitchers start growing, it would seem the tendrils are busy finding holds to fasten themselves to. Once attached, or well positioned, the pitcher bud starts to inflate. I doubt Nepenthes would evolve to actually lose this ability, but some species with exceedingly short tendrils would probably not be able to use their tendrils to tie onto other plants, but they can still perfectly position the growing pitchers. Dave Evans
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 20, 2007 23:11:33 GMT
Dave, why some species of Nepenthes lose their ability to produce prehensile tendrils is a mystery to me, and the plants aren't talking. Your photo of N. burbidgea is very nice, but the en-vivo examples of the species in its natural settings are defining; N. burbidgea, as well as N. rajah has been photographed in prehensile tendril, and published several times; true the tendril will find its way down, and outward until the pitcher bud begins to develop and will adapt to those contours, but for a tendril to wrap itself around an object in a complete 360 degree loop, or two, is quite another thing.
Also, another unpublished peculiarity that occurs with N. villosa is that as mature plants, they will often produce long tendrils without developing the pitcher until a certain environmental trigger occurs, and then, they develop all their pitcher buds so that they all seem to open unisynchronously.
Again, the defining feature is the presence of inflorescence on the plants in the wild, without them having developed any prehensile tendrils.
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Post by Dave Evans on Apr 23, 2007 22:14:07 GMT
Dear Rich, I don't think you will find any species which do not have this ability, it seems to be a defining feature of the entire genus, it might even predate their carnivorous nature. I think what we do find is, most species use their upper leaves and not the lower leaves as the location for prehensile tendrils. So the species which shy away from producing upper grow or long-shoots will also have a reduced display of prehensile tendrils, not a complete absence. It have to re-locate some photos of N. veitchii, the leaves were not just curved, they were molding themselves onto their host trees so tightly, it reminded me of a constrictor snake attacking something. Dave, why some species of Nepenthes lose their ability to produce prehensile tendrils is a mystery to me, and the plants aren't talking.
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 23, 2007 22:34:07 GMT
Dave,
Yes, N. veitchii does seem to grow with their leaves actually embracing their hosts, and sometimes overlap their tendrils so that they even interlock, but the fact is that some species such as N. clippeata, N. villosa, N. veitchii, N. truncata and a few others will go on forever, producing flowers and all, without ever once producing a single prehensile tendril.
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Post by endodoc on Apr 27, 2007 16:24:23 GMT
I am kinda a newbie, can someone show me what is meant by a prehensile tendril, is it the thingy that supports the pitcher, hope this is not a dumb questions Regards Ed
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Post by rsivertsen on Apr 27, 2007 17:49:33 GMT
Yes, it's that loop in the tendril that supports the pitcher; monkeys have a prehensile tail.
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Post by Dave Evans on Aug 2, 2007 7:19:06 GMT
Dear Rich, After doing a bunch of research on Nepenthes, I have made a revised list. " " mark plants which I have never seen produce prehensile tendrils, but have not seen flower: N. adnata N. anamensis N. argentii N. chaniana N. clipeata N. campanulata (for sure, followed by a photo) N. distillatoria (seen it in flower, non-coiling tendrils) N. macrovulgaris N. truncata (there are plenty of photographs showing how this subshrub flowers) N. veitchii N. villosa
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