coline
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Life's essence: patience
Posts: 484
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Post by coline on Apr 26, 2014 14:17:45 GMT
Hi, I recently got seeds from this complex hybrid crosses from a friend
(Viking x Mirabilis hot lips) x X Konak
(Viking x Thorelii) x Albomarginata grey
So then I went to the photofinder as I usually do, and I found none information about any of these, even nothing reffering to the grey albomarginata, or crosses among viking hybrid, nor mirabilis wih hot lips.
So I wanted to know, as time goes on, hybrids will continue to get even more complex than this 2 are.
Will they continue to be given "x" names with all the parent plants or what will happen? And in my case, what could I name these ones?
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Post by peterhewitt on Apr 26, 2014 18:53:41 GMT
You can only name them as you have already done, and yes, you would continue having to write the names down thusly, unless one of these is declared a cultivar. Just like 'Konak', although this one is not described, so the name is not valid, it can still be recognized by this name.
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coline
Full Member
Life's essence: patience
Posts: 484
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Post by coline on Apr 26, 2014 22:26:51 GMT
I see, gladly nepenthes take a while to grow before flowering! Look, I have one of the plants I mentioned, since it is new I had forgot its name:
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Post by sykosarah on Apr 26, 2014 23:46:56 GMT
I wish there was a way to gender nepenthes before they first flowered, considering, if nothing else, that female plants tend to need a little extra careful care than males do and are more likely to weaken severely when they flower.
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Post by paulbarden on Apr 27, 2014 0:41:43 GMT
...that female plants tend to need a little extra careful care than males do... That is complete nonsense! Where are you getting this (mis)information from??
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Post by sykosarah on Apr 27, 2014 0:56:56 GMT
From the tendencies people have mentioned for their females to get sick or not grow as well, in general. I thought that was one of the reasons that nepenthes in cultivation were so commonly male, even more so than occurs in the wild, which is also male favored.
I swear in a lot of the instances I have heard people complain in general about their plants declining many of them mention that it is female. I don't know, everyone always disagrees about the facts on CPs, it is so frustrating.
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Post by paulbarden on Apr 27, 2014 3:44:41 GMT
From the tendencies people have mentioned for their females to get sick or not grow as well, in general. I thought that was one of the reasons that nepenthes in cultivation were so commonly male, even more so than occurs in the wild, which is also male favored. I swear in a lot of the instances I have heard people complain in general about their plants declining many of them mention that it is female. I don't know, everyone always disagrees about the facts on CPs, it is so frustrating. That is utter nonsense. Do you know why there are more males in cultivation than females? Because that is the inherent genetic predisposition of the genus. Any seed grown population will have a ratio of approximately seven males to three females. This is a well documented fact. It has nothing to do with this strange notion that females are "weak" or "sick" somehow. You are being fed some serious misinformation.
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Post by sykosarah on Apr 27, 2014 7:06:55 GMT
I know that happens, I thought that the ratio was more male favored in cultivation than it was in the wild though. Seriously, I am not making this up, there was a site making these claims. Sorry I was misinformed and apparently the ratio isn't different in cultivation than it is in the wild, and I recall stating that I was aware that it was normal for wild populations to be male favored.
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coline
Full Member
Life's essence: patience
Posts: 484
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Post by coline on Apr 27, 2014 20:14:09 GMT
Well, that is interesting, I always thought that people selling plants, specially hybrids, sold almost only males so others could not make seed. (my conception of Me vs the evil world) lol! but totally agree with Paul
I had a female, and it grew huge, it was my very first nepenthes (I grew it on soil in a water tray) and once it made a flower stalk, of course it did not work, but it was 1m tall at that point. Then, I entered a phase where I got rotting problems because I used pure peat on my plants, and I lost her and her cuttings. (This country lacks completely of a CP hobby, I'm working to change it) Other than that, I know that I have a male clone of x 'gentle' that has flowered twice
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Post by Dave Evans on May 2, 2014 3:06:12 GMT
From the tendencies people have mentioned for their females to get sick or not grow as well, in general. I thought that was one of the reasons that nepenthes in cultivation were so commonly male, even more so than occurs in the wild, which is also male favored. I swear in a lot of the instances I have heard people complain in general about their plants declining many of them mention that it is female. I don't know, everyone always disagrees about the facts on CPs, it is so frustrating. Err, if you're getting your facts from a cracker jack box, well that's what you get... Seriously, where did you hear this silly stuff from? Nepenthes tend to have 50/50 males and females. I don't know what people are talking about when they say things like "males are so much more common", it is also non-sense. Female nepenthes just make fewer flowers than the males do, since the individual flowers cost them more. Nothing here about being female making the plant weaker--unless you choose to use "artistic license" with the facts. Also, sometimes conditions cause plants to flower non-stop. This hasn't anything to do with the sex, its likely a normal reaction of the species and/or traits of an individual clone. Paul, I believe the males tend to make more inflorescences per plant.
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Post by Dave Evans on May 2, 2014 3:37:25 GMT
The grey albo is just a description. The main color is grey. As time goes by, the hybrids will keep getting more complicated and difficult to track via the cultivar system, so I now recommend naming Nepenthes hybrids under the grex system. People talk about it not being "valid", but it is better, so what that is isn't valid? It still works better at tracking the plants and retaining the information.
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coline
Full Member
Life's essence: patience
Posts: 484
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Post by coline on May 2, 2014 17:11:13 GMT
Dave, what is that grex system?
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Post by paulbarden on May 2, 2014 18:08:41 GMT
Dave, what is that grex system? The idea is that when you make a hybrid, the entire group of offspring from the cross gets a grex name, much like how Orchid hybrids are documented. Sam at Leilani already does this. For example, Sam's hybrid N. Involuntary Bliss, which is a cross of N. aristolochioides and N. mira. All of the seedlings from that cross bear the same grex name; N. Involuntary Bliss. The system is hated by many who oppose it, but it's far less broken than simply listing the dozen species that went into a hybrid's making. Soon, there won't be enough bracket styles to accommodate this messy process, so the grex addresses this nicely.
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Post by ICPS-bob on May 2, 2014 18:10:13 GMT
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Post by Dave Evans on May 2, 2014 20:47:11 GMT
Dave, what is that grex system? The idea is that when you make a hybrid, the entire group of offspring from the cross gets a grex name, much like how Orchid hybrids are documented. Sam at Leilani already does this. For example, Sam's hybrid N. Involuntary Bliss, which is a cross of N. aristolochioides and N. mira. All of the seedlings from that cross bear the same grex name; N. Involuntary Bliss. The system is hated by many who oppose it, but it's far less broken than simply listing the dozen species that went into a hybrid's making. Soon, there won't be enough bracket styles to accommodate this messy process, so the grex addresses this nicely. Well, I can see where is some cases using the cultivar system is preferred, but with the way we generally like to breed our plants, I don't really see the cultivar system as being any where near comprehensive as we'd like it to be. In the past, many cultivators were trying to use the cultivar system the same way the grex system for orchids is setup, so I've very little understanding of why it is now looked down on...? The ICPS fixed the cultivar system for all Carnivorous Plants and it now runs very well. However, the grex system also works very well and I see no reason both systems can't be employed simultaneously by the community. Think about it, we like to remake the same hybrids and grow out as many seedlings as are healthy, this isn't worth naming each batch of plants by a different cultivar name, but naming the grex that continues to be remade over and over and giving it single name for all the different clones makes a lot more sense. While cultivars can be named for unique plants which have outstanding characteristics not shared by their more normal siblings.
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