VFT's flooded! :)

[jhtunion]

ICPS,

I just wanted to share a pic of my VFT's covered completely with water. This happens out in nature so I figure I should do the same taking into account they are growing in a big container having closet 2ft of soil below. The chances of my plants rotting are very unlikely.

I also met with Wahter, and he gave me Sarracenia wrigleyana in exchange for other plants I had.

I also flooded the darlingtonias (they grow pretty slow) but are growing well, and I am giving them occasional floodings and flushing the water instantly ( just like in their ecosystem).

The pic of the ceph, I used my index finger for comparison of how big the pitcher is. This plant is growing really well and I am not even watering, the way I water this plant is very uniquely. I use a droplet and 1 time per week I am simply dropping 8 to 10 drops of water in the crown ( that's it! ) I am also using a fertilizer(from lowe's) and I am filling the pitchers up every two weeks. I am using 5ml of fertilizer per half a gallon (it is a very weak fertilizer solution but it works great for cephs, neps, heli, sarras. They are for sure growing bigger with the fertilizer on the pitchers.

The last pic is of an ant that obviously got trapped!


I received the VFT's from Matt about a year ago (Thanks Matt!) and they are growing fantastic in my conditions, I can't wait for summer when all the traps will be covering the entire container, then it will be a death zone for insects!

For comparison unflooded:



flooded:












Large VFT's:





Darlingtonia:




Ceph:





Sarra from Wahter:



Pollinating S. wrigleyana X S.x catesbaei


Ant in dutch delight:


Same ant in VFT Long Maroon Iris:

[bobtheglob]

I read somewhere that this flooding process isnt recommened for the plants and is bad for them. Dont quote me on that as others might say otherwise.

[hcarlton]

I'd have to agree with Bob here. While once or twice a year is okay for flytraps for them to go underwater, but as they are savannah plants, not so much bog plants, they don't naturally experience this too often unless there are severe storms and floods. Typically they like the water level to be under the soil line.

[Not a Number]

Geologically as I recall the area where Venus Flytraps are found was a flood plain and periodically inundated with water. It is hypothesized that this flooding is what led to the development/evolution of snap traps from sticky traps.

Joseph Clemens had at one time grown Dionaea as a semi-aquatic for a number of years.

In the 1958 paper "Responses of Venus Fly Trap (Dionaea muscipula) to Factors Involved in its Endemism" by Patrica R. Roberts and H.J. Oosting in Ecological Monographs V28n2 (Apr. 1958), pp. 193-218 they describe a population of transplanted Dioanaea that had been living submerged for 7 years as "still very vigorous. At times the traps of some leaves had been above the water level, but the growing points and petioles had always been submerged. All plants were in an extreme spring condition, displaying very long petioles (13-15 cm) and traps (4.25 cm). Planarians, mayfly and other aquatic larvae and even newts were seen in the traps in a partially digested state. Most of the traps examined contained either newly trapped animals or the remains of digested ones. Thus, the trap mechanism is not only sensitive under water, but is able to close with sufficient rapidity to catch fast-moving aquatic animals."

From the populations studied Dionaea were most numerous in the transition zones between pocosin (wetlands with acidic, sandy peat soils) and savannah where the water level was at or just below the average root zone of the plants. Plants that were transplanted into savannah showed a distinct retardation in vegetative development - much more compact and less developed and with shorter flower stalks than those in the "normal" zone. Plants in the savannah plots showed a higher mortality rate of 9% vs 0.25% in all other plots studied.

Reprints of the paper is available through JStor. Your public library should have a JStor account and can download the paper for you.

[ICPS-bob]

Thanks NAN. Very interesting paper.

[Aidan]

Since reading that paper I have for several years been meaning to pot a plant in a large glass jar so that it may be grown completely submerged... just to see what happens.

Maybe this year.

[ICPS-bob]

Mr. Aubrey Shaw's results of 7 years of submerged VFT cited by NAN were for outdoor field conditions. The authors also reported similar results under greenhouse conditions (p206-207):

Prior to the visit to Mr. Shaw, flooding experiments had already been completed in the greenhouse. Mature plants had been kept continuously flooded for 3 months without injury. Immature plants which had been in water-logged soil for 7 months remained large and healthy, and some produced flowers. Soil conditions of the plants in Mr. Shaw's field area 4 and of those in the water-logged soil of the greenhouse were similar.

Some people purposely submerge VFTs to kill aphids and other pests. Personally, I would be careful about extended flooding of potted VFTs. However, I would never discourage anyone from experimenting with growing their plants. Replication and untreated controls are key to any experiment I certainly would encourage keeping detailed notes on your observations and results.

[Brian Barnes]

Good info NAN,

That is very interesting... And now, to drown some flytraps.

Brian

[Aidan]

Apr 25, 2012 20:58:02 GMT ICPS-bob said:

...I would never discourage anyone from experimenting with growing their plants. Replication and untreated controls are key to any experiment I certainly would encourage keeping detailed notes on your observations and results.

If I get around to it this year, it will likely be an experiment of the ad hoc variety. ;D

[jhtunion]

Apr 24, 2012 23:42:33 GMT bobtheglob said:

I read somewhere that this flooding process isnt recommened for the plants and is bad for them. Dont quote me on that as others might say otherwise.

I will not quote you on this, but certainly you can see the good results of flooding so far!

[jhtunion]

Apr 25, 2012 11:11:53 GMT Not a Number said:

Geologically as I recall the area where Venus Flytraps are found was a flood plain and periodically inundated with water. It is hypothesized that this flooding is what led to the development/evolution of snap traps from sticky traps.

Joseph Clemens had at one time grown Dionaea as a semi-aquatic for a number of years.

In the 1958 paper "Responses of Venus Fly Trap (Dionaea muscipula) to Factors Involved in its Endemism" by Patrica R. Roberts and H.J. Oosting in Ecological Monographs V28n2 (Apr. 1958), pp. 193-218 they describe a population of transplanted Dioanaea that had been living submerged for 7 years as "still very vigorous. At times the traps of some leaves had been above the water level, but the growing points and petioles had always been submerged. All plants were in an extreme spring condition, displaying very long petioles (13-15 cm) and traps (4.25 cm). Planarians, mayfly and other aquatic larvae and even newts were seen in the traps in a partially digested state. Most of the traps examined contained either newly trapped animals or the remains of digested ones. Thus, the trap mechanism is not only sensitive under water, but is able to close with sufficient rapidity to catch fast-moving aquatic animals."

From the populations studied Dionaea were most numerous in the transition zones between pocosin (wetlands with acidic, sandy peat soils) and savannah where the water level was at or just below the average root zone of the plants. Plants that were transplanted into savannah showed a distinct retardation in vegetative development - much more compact and less developed and with shorter flower stalks than those in the "normal" zone. Plants in the savannah plots showed a higher mortality rate of 9% vs 0.25% in all other plots studied.

Reprints of the paper is available through JStor. Your public library should have a JStor account and can download the paper for you.

Thanks a lot for this, I will try to get the full text, this is very interesting and I think I am doing a good job at flooding these plants without any problem, I will keep doing it as long as my water lasts!

[jhtunion]

Apr 25, 2012 20:58:02 GMT ICPS-bob said:

Mr. Aubrey Shaw's results of 7 years of submerged VFT cited by NAN were for outdoor field conditions. The authors also reported similar results under greenhouse conditions (p206-207):

Prior to the visit to Mr. Shaw, flooding experiments had already been completed in the greenhouse. Mature plants had been kept continuously flooded for 3 months without injury. Immature plants which had been in water-logged soil for 7 months remained large and healthy, and some produced flowers. Soil conditions of the plants in Mr. Shaw's field area 4 and of those in the water-logged soil of the greenhouse were similar.

Some people purposely submerge VFTs to kill aphids and other pests. Personally, I would be careful about extended flooding of potted VFTs. However, I would never discourage anyone from experimenting with growing their plants. Replication and untreated controls are key to any experiment I certainly would encourage keeping detailed notes on your observations and results.

Very very interesting!
I have 3 containers like this one with the same amount of peat and silica sand at the top, they are right next to each other and have the same amount of VFT's. (except for the container in the pic with very big VFT's)
I will try to flood one container more than the other for the growing season. one container will most likely be flooded every week or so(will see how that goes weekly or maybe biweekly), the other one probably every month, and then the other one just right at the soil level.

It would be interesting to see the outcome, but I think this can only be done with large container like the one I have and in outdoor/greenhouse conditions.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend this for people growing VFT's in small styrofoam cups, or for people growing plants indoor. But I think what hurts to experiment like Bob is saying.

I will post back in a month with some updates!
Any suggestions?

[Richard Davion]

photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/156184_3843744771891_1226251478_3859615_642519572_a.jpg

"I"-Have to COMMEND-You For Having-R-GO &-Experimenting ... Afteral Anyone Can-'Make'-R-DISCOVERY so-to-Speak, Especially THESE-Days.

NOW ... With Super-Duper Digital-Cameras / Mobile-Phones & GPS It's-'Easy' to-Make-Recordings &-to-Convey-Information ... so Keep-Us INFORMED of-Your Progress so-to-Speak!!! >(*U^)<

****
PS: It's-Coming ... The-Footage is-'Just Too-GOOD ... You'll-be IMPRESSED!!! >(*U^)<

[Not a Number]

Another good paper on the habitat of VFTs is:

Habitats of Dionaea muscipula (Venus' Fly Trap), Droseraceae, Associated with Carolina Bays
by James O. Luken Southeastern Naturalist, Vol. 4, No. 4 (2005), pp. 573-584
Published by: Humboldt Field Research Institute
www.jstor.org/stable/3878224

Unlike Roberts and Oosting, Luken observed that adult flytraps were found mostly in Sphagnum mats. Roberts and Oosting observed seedlings were often found in Sphagnum mats but rarely adults.

[peatmoss]

I will have to get some flytraps to stick in the dunk tank...