sundewman
Full Member
Happy Growing!
Posts: 235
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Post by sundewman on Oct 18, 2009 20:33:26 GMT
Yes, since water is constantly evaporating from the soil, it creates a humid "microclimate" (I think that's what it's called).
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Post by mmlr38 on Oct 19, 2009 2:18:47 GMT
The bag isn't necessary. All it will do is increase the chances of fungus in the stagnant air. I've germinated with and without bags and it's quite a bit faster if you use a plastic bag. And if you take it off after 30 days, the chance of fungal growth is almost none.
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Post by massoud on Oct 19, 2009 16:51:41 GMT
It's been 39 days now and the seeds haven't germinated yet. Should I take the bag off now? Thanks a lot to everyone who has contributed to this so far.
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Post by mmlr38 on Oct 20, 2009 23:38:28 GMT
It's been 39 days now and the seeds haven't germinated yet. Should I take the bag off now? Thanks a lot to everyone who has contributed to this so far. That's weird. What are your conditions? What temperature are you keeping them at? How much light are they getting? They should germinate within 15 days if you keep them relatively warm (80°F or so), keep the humidity high (in a plastic bag) and give them good light. Also, how old are the seeds? Are they from this year's harvest?
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Post by massoud on Oct 21, 2009 12:10:45 GMT
The humidity is high, the temperature fits in the range in which you described, but the seeds are definitely not new. I bought them from this kit called Grow Your Own Venus Flytrap by Running Press. Perhaps this is the reason for the "delay."
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Post by Not a Number on Oct 21, 2009 15:30:25 GMT
Unfortunately Dionaea seeds unless kept refrigerated or sown immediately lose their viability within a couple months.
Old seed may need cold and damp stratification to germinate.
Did you cold stratify the seed?
Give them two or three months more just in case.
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Post by massoud on Oct 21, 2009 17:16:31 GMT
Oh, that's too bad if it's true. That would mean all my work was done for nothing.
The booklet instructed me to stratify the seeds for three weeks. I did comply to that order. In addition, the booklet says that it would take atleast six weeks for the seeds to germinate. In two days it would reach the six week period. So if the book is right, the seeds should germinate. If it's wrong, and you are right, then we got a problem.
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Post by Alexis on Oct 22, 2009 9:03:33 GMT
Stratification isn't necessary. The seeds fall to the ground in May/June, germinate in a couple of weeks and become established in time for dormancy in November.
The grow your own seed kits generally contain dead seed and are a complete rip off. You need to get fresh seed from other growers.
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Post by massoud on Oct 22, 2009 19:54:47 GMT
Thanks a lot. I hope that you are incorrect, but the evidence seems to be in your favour.
For now I'm going to see if the seeds possibly germinate.
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Post by Not a Number on Oct 23, 2009 14:29:39 GMT
Stratifying the seeds will not harm them. And despite what the UK growers say I've never gotten germination from unstratified Dionaea or Darlingtonia seed, no matter how fresh. I consistently get 80% or better germination from both these species when stratified whether freshly harvested or cold stored for years. Your mileage may vary. In the future if you have enough seed, try both methods and see which works best. If they both give approximately equal germination ratios then use the least effort method (no stratification) from then on. Like many others I've given up growing Dionaea from seed. It takes too long to grow to maturity if they survive the long. Mature Venus Flytraps are often available in the 99 Cent Only Stores in California. www.bestcarnivorousplants.com/sowing_seeds.htm#Dionaea%20%28Dionaea%20muscipula%29
Dionaea (Dionaea muscipula)
Seeds of D. muscipula require cold stratification and a common planting medium (peat moss: sand at 2:1). Seeds germinate at temperatures of 15-25°C and 100% relative humidity within several weeks. Germination is rather prolonged. The young seedlings are transplanted once they have at least 3 true leaves.
Germination of fresh seeds sown immediately after harvest without stratification is poor (5-20%), while seeds of the cultivar ´Akai Ryu´ stored in the refrigerator for three years germinate well (80%). Viable seed can be obtained from the ICPS seedbank, a few of the on-line Carnivorous Plant nurseries or seed stores, established CP growers and reputable sellers on eBay. I would use great caution when buying from eBay sellers.
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Post by mmlr38 on Oct 24, 2009 1:44:33 GMT
It's absolutely true that stratification isn't necessary for Dionaea seed. I've never stratified my seed and I always get 90% or better germination.
I probably won't grow too many plants from seed in vivo anymore because they take so long to mature. But in vitro, I can have near adult sized plants in a matter of 7 or 8 months.
I always stratify Darlingtonia and Sarracenia seed with gibberellic acid, but stratification is absolutely NOT necessary for Dionaea.
If the seed is old, perhaps stratifying them may help. I'm not sure about that. I know that stratification is supposed to deactivate an enzyme that inhibits the seeds from germinating. The enzyme is there in most plants that drop seed near the end of the year (like Darlingtonia and Sarracenia) to stop the seed from germinating because the seedling would almost certainly perish over the winter.
Dionaea set seed early in the year, sometime in late spring or early summer. They have plenty of time to germinate and prepare for dormancy so the seedlings won't freeze to death.
And as others have already said, those seed kits are a total rip off. I'd definitely recommend getting fresh seed from the ICPS seed bank if you want to try growing them from seed.
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Post by massoud on Oct 24, 2009 20:11:19 GMT
Thanks a lot to both of you. ;D Now, let's just wait and see if germination does possibly occur.
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Post by ltecato on Oct 25, 2009 2:25:12 GMT
Edited to add: Sorry, I got mixed up when I posted this. I was reading a question from Aug. 16 but somehow thought it had been posted Oct. 23. So this is my really long-winded and probably redundant answer to Massoud's question about whether one light bulb would suffice.
Massoud, that will depend on a number of factors, including the output of light, the heat produced by the bulb, the number of seedlings and the distance between the bulb and the seedlings. Another factor is the presence or absence of light from other sources, such as a window.
I don't use lights now, but based on my experience .growing a certain plant in a dark closet (this was many years ago during my misspent youth), I would say that one of the old-fashioned 2-foot-long 20-watt fluorescent tubes would provide enough light for as many vfts as you can place within four to six inches from the bulb. I'd think you'd be able to get at least two or three dozen seedlings that close. A 40-watt tube would accommodate twice as many plants, spread over twice as large an area.
Keep in mind, you can't place the plants so close to the bulb that the heat would burn the leaves. So of course you'd want to hold your hand a few inches from the bulb to determine how much heat is being produced. If it's too hot for your hand, it's probably too hot for vfts.
If you're using an incandescent bulb, say a standard 40-watt lamp bulb, you'd probably need to keep you plants at least six inches away from it, maybe eight or 10 to be safe. That means the plants would have to be arranged inside a circular space. Those in the center of the circle would be getting the most light. I'm not good enough at geometry to tell you how many seedlings would fit in that space, but I'm guessing it would be at least 20.
If you're planning to use the really powerful bulbs like a metal halide or HO fluorescent (do they still make those?) you'd be able to grow a lot more seedlings, obviously.
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Post by unstuckintime on Oct 25, 2009 21:51:31 GMT
If you're using an incandescent bulb, say a standard 40-watt lamp bulb, you'd probably need to keep you plants at least six inches away from it, maybe eight or 10 to be safe. I agree that you need to keep the plants further away because of the extra heat incandescents throw off, but, dont they also throw off the wrong wave-length of light? Or, they do, but just in a proportion which doesn't help plants very much? In either case, I was always under the impression they should not be used as the source of artificial light when growing any kind of plants, not just carnivorous ones, in artificial conditions.
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Post by massoud on Oct 25, 2009 22:00:37 GMT
Barry Rice also reached the same deduction, that incadescent light bulbs merely cook your plants and provide no help. In addition, my light bulb is a soft white (65 watts) and it's spiral. Please refer to the following link: www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq3410.html
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