New to CP and have questions

[kerickson978]

Hello all,
i am new to Carnivorous plants and wanted to try an outdoor bog garden to begin with, because it sounds like the option with the least to go wrong... Ive been taking care of tropical Vivariums for my dart-frogs for years so i am not 100% new just new to the carnivores.
OK so here comes the questions

1) i think i live in zone 5b? Denver colorado... so is it even possible to have an outdoor bog garden without having to dig it up in the fall so everything lives through winter?

2) how deep does the bog need to be in order to survive through the winter?

3) do i need to cover it with something in fall like mulch or just leave it alone?

4) how deep does the water table need to be below the surface? 5 in? 1 in? 12 in?

5) when mixing the peat sand mix do i mix 50/50 by volume?

the plants i wanted to start out with were
Sarracenia leucophylla"Dana's Delight"
Sarracenia leucophylla "Tarnok"
and Typical, Dente and Akai Ryu flytraps
is this feasible?

i understand no fertilizer, distilled or R.O water, and full sun. and to put drain holes in the side of the bog to prevent flooding during rain/snow-melt. i was planning on using a large tub about 17 in deep 19in wide 32 in long sunk into the ground... is that as good as a pond liner? cause Ive got some of that laying around if its better

and not to transplant the flytraps, just plant them in the pot they come in.. is that still suggested for an outdoors situation?

thanks in advance for all the help its awesome.

[Clint]

1: Yes. You can mulch.

2: Generally a foot deep is fine. Mulch.

3: Wait until it gets cold, but before it freezes. If that's in the fall for you, then do it in the fall. I'm three zones higher than you, so I don't know much about Colorado growing specifically.

4: First of all, you don't NEED to have a water table. It is convenient, though it's not without it's cons. Second, if you want one, an inch or two is sufficient. You don't want to let it stagnate. Don't worry if it goes a little higher or lower; you can always drain it if you like. Don't worry too much about it, just don't let your media stagnate. When it does this, anaerobic bacteria grow and make hydrogen sulfide.

5: If you choose to use that mix, then yes. You always mix everything by volume. There is a wide variety of mixes, and to be honest, it doesn't really matter what you use. Any combination of sand, peat, perlite, arcillite if you dislike perlite, and Sphagnum is fine. Even using "exotic" ingredients like bark or pine straw is fine. Pure LFS is fine. I don't like pure peat. I generally like a sandy mix, like 2/1 sand/peat, although I've had results just as good whenever I throw whatever crap I have laying around in a bucket and mix it up.

Your plants are fine, just don't forget to mulch. S. purpurea ssp. purpurea is the northern-most growing Sarracenia. In fact it's the only one that naturally occurs outside the southeast. It would do very well for you. All Sarracenia are easy plants, just mulch in areas that get too cold.


Sorry. I see your dimensions now. 17 inches deep is also a fine depth. Don't sink it into the ground, because minerals in the ground could contaminate it if it has any holes or is porous. It's not a large container and would be easy to put in the garage or basement for winter. You wouldn't have to mulch. I thought you wanted to make a BIG bog. It didn't hit me that you weren't whenever I say your list of plants lol. It's really easiest to not bury it and to bring it inside in the winter. If you must bury it, then make it undrained.

Plant all the plants directly in the bog.

[kerickson978]

thanks for the quick reply! although now i have come up with some more questions for you,
how do i prevent the media from stagnating? letting the water in the bottom all be used up?(but not going dry) carefully agitating the mix with a bamboo rod or old archery arrow? (not mixing just poking like aerating)
also without installing some plumbing with perhaps a ball valve how do i drain the old water? and how often should i do that? 3-4 months? monthly? or only if somethings going wrong?
if i was to put it in the garage in winter should i still put a grow light over the flytraps? or will it be fine in the dark for 5 months?
or would burying it and leaving it to its own devices (while providing some moisture) be best?
also i am not to limited on size..(within reason) i have an RO DI filter for the reef tank and dart-frogs, so water isn't to much of an issue ether. ;D
so if increasing the size to make it weather resistant would help then i can do that. i prefer to leave the plants where they are happiest. so if that means dragging it to the garage in winter so be it. if it means digging a bigger hole so be it. (by the way i don't need to plant it i just assumed most people did)
were you were surprised by the relatively small size of the bog when you saw the list? because i was not expecting they would fill the container... will this list grow to be to crowded? if so i can construct a separate bog for the flytraps..

ooh another question are what are the names of books that are recommended?


like i said before... i know very little about this, i have no tropical plants that go dormant. i tried flytraps and sundews when i was 8 and guess how that worked... 8 year olds and terrariums are not a good mix... the biggest mistakes i remember because i didn't know better was i used potting soil... yeah... no good...


Thanks for all the help and sorry for all the questions, i just wanna get it right the first... well second time.

[Adammmm]

Wow, when I was eight, i did a fine terrarium. My dad said " You're over watering it!" and i just said that you needed to keep watering it. One smart third grader... Also, no offense about before. Then my drained the terrarium and all my plants died. So he got me a new flytrap next time we went out.

[Clint]

You've got it in regards to keeping the media fresh. No need to disturb the media with any rods or arrows, just let the water level drop but not go dry. Using any valves wouldn't be practical for your situation, but on a very, very large bog a ball valve would be great to release excess water. I really prefer to grow Sarracenia on the drier (not dry!) side over the wet side. They grow just as well and there's no need to worry about root rot or stagnation or any of that stuff.

If your temperature is low (which I'm sure it will be in Colorado!) in the winter, no need for any light. I don't even water my plants in the winter, I just forget about them. They don't ever dry out because we get enough rain to keep the media sustainable, but CO may be different and you may need to water sparingly. Don't ever let them dry out.

Increasing the size would make it more weather resistant, and it also wouldn't dry out quite as fast. Big containers hold more water, and more media for better insulation. If you want to plant it, you'll have to go undrained because of the risk of contamination. Undrained is fine and perfectly doable, it just has more con's than pro's in my opinion. Lots of unnecessary water you don't need that can cause problems, but people use undrained containers all the time (although they tend to be smaller and the deeper the media, the more chances for anaerobic bacteria to grow.... nasty).

I didn't really pay close attention to the list at first which is why I thought you meant a large bog, since you were talking about burying it in the ground. Really, for that list, all you need is a "Bog bowl" like one of these: www.blackjungle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Session_ID=485FE98A000562A4000045CB00000000&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BJTS&Product_Code=BB-16&Category_Code=CP


that you can get at Wal-Mart or Home Depot. Or one of those half-barrels or something similar. It's so small, there's no real reason to plant it. Putting it in the garage isn't a big deal. It's not heavy or anything. This is small enough that you can go undrained without worry if you want (but I'd still drain the water after a heavy rain), or you can drill a hole in the side an inch from the bottom.

Growing Carnivorous Plants by Barry Rice and The Savage Garden by Peter D'Amato are good books.

[Nicole]

Jun 16, 2008 3:41:09 GMT kerickson978 said:

thanks for the quick reply! although now i have come up with some more questions for you,
how do i prevent the media from stagnating? letting the water in the bottom all be used up?(but not going dry) carefully agitating the mix with a bamboo rod or old archery arrow? (not mixing just poking like aerating)

Hi

I have had one outdoor bog for about three years and am just finishing up my second. I live in upstate NY which has just been upgraded to zone 6, but I wouldn't count on that.

My bogs are 100 gallon pond forms like the one you get at Lowes or Home depot. I put a layer of lava rock a few inches deep and in order to allow drainage , I bought a piece of PVC pipe, cut it to an appropriate length and drilled holes in the side only as deep as the lava rocks. I put the pipe upright in the, then put down a layer of weed block cloth before putting in the soil mixture. The Pipe allows me to put a hose down it so that if I need to drain it, I can without digging up the whole bog. BTW --I have not had to do this yet

I mulch my bog in the late fall -- last year it was around Thanksgiving. I cut back just about all my pitcher plants to the ground, with the exception of my S. Purpurea and S. Psittacina, these and my flytraps I cover with an overturned plastic something to protect them from being crushed by the mulch. Before mulching I spray it with a fungicide - I use the Safer brand -- be careful, you want a sulfur based fungicide or you can use neem oil. After I spray it, I lay down a layer of FRESH burlap. Don't use old burlap as it may have fungal spores on it. I then spray the brulap with the fungicide. I try to mulch with all pine needles, but I haven't been able to collect enough, so I supplement with straw. Pine needles first, straw second --about 18 inches deep. Last year was the second winter and I still have not lost a plant, even though some of them are from zone 8

Good luck with the bog