A "Fine Grade" of Perlite

[Fred P]

Does anyone grow their Sarrs using a "Fine Grade" of perlite?

I've been using "Medium Grade" for some time now with great success but was wondering if anyone has been using "Fine" and how available it is to get.

[Brian Barnes]

Hi Fred. Maybe you can just crush the perlite down to the grade you want? Just a suggestion.
Happy Growing,
Brian.

[Fred P]

Hey Brian. Thanks, I have done that before but its very time consuming and messy. Plus, perlite dust particles aren't the best for your lungs (so I hear). I know they make a fine grade but I've never seen it sold at stores and was wondering if anyone has used it (and where to get it).
Fred

[Not a Number]

I put the perlite into a heavy sealable plastic bag. Wet it down a bit and roll it with a bottle or stomp on it. depending on my mood. There's little dust that way.

Rinsing perlite is always fun. Does anybody have a good method?

I've been putting a bit of cloth (old T-shirt or cheese cloth) in the bottom of a pot, put another pot in that. Pour some perlite into the inner pot and cover with a cloth held in place with a rubber band.

I then pour water through the top cloth which keeps the perlite from floating out.

[Aidan]

fpasskiewicz said:

Does anyone grow their Sarrs using a "Fine Grade" of perlite?

I have to ask why?

Sarracenia are very tolerant of a wide range of media mixes. Brick sherds and bit of peat would do! ;D

[Fred P]

aidan said:

I have to ask why?

Sarracenia are very tolerant of a wide range of media mixes. Brick sherds and bit of peat would do! ;D

LOL! I agree Aidan. I was only thinking that a fine grade would more resemble course sand without the weight. I only wanted to experiment with it (especially with seedlings) and was wondering how readily available it is.

[wallsg7]

Ive never been a big fan of perlite.First time i used it i almost choked to death : / I conducted several experiments last year, (before i continue i must add these were my own little experiments and are in no way professional),which produced a clear winner.Washed medium silica grit 75% and 25% moss peat.The plants responded to the total lack of nutrients(75% sand) by growing bigger pitchers.Even seedlings grow new growth points in this mix within the first year in order to catch enough nutrients.
Also perlite has rounded particles.Silica grit has sharp,jagged edges.These sharp edges trap more air than perlite.This is why grit or sharp sand is used for breaking down heavy clay soils.
The only downside is of course the weight but i personaly grow my plants to be as happy as possible so the weight is not an issue for me.
When i conducted this experiment last year the seedlings grown in this mix were twice the size as those grown in perlite by the end of the year and they had more divisions.
Am i a complete nutcase?Probably-but try it-see if you get the same results i did.

Gary

[fredg]

wallsg7 said:

Ive never been a big fan of perlite.First time i used it i almost choked to death

All the bags that I've seen have a warning about not breathing in the dust.

wallsg7 said:

The plants responded to the total lack of nutrients(75% sand) by growing bigger pitchers

What are we comparing to here? You'd only been growing CPs for 6 months.

wallsg7 said:

Silica grit has sharp,jagged edges.These sharp edges trap more air than perlite.

Where does this come from?
Could you show references on that fact please?

wallsg7 said:

personaly grow my plants to be as happy as possible

Let me remind you what you said not too long ago.

-even if this is true,and the plant eventualy dies-what does that matter

[Fred P]

W7 - Do you have more info/facts on silica grit??

[wallsg7]

Fred g,i was comparing the bigger pitchers to the same plants growing in other mediums : ) sorry i thought that was obvious.

As a gardener all my life i know that sharp sand or grit is used to break down heavy clay soils.....not perlite.This is because ,as previously mentioned,the sharp,irregular jagged edges of grit trap more air than any other medium.
Go to your local garden centre-ask them what is the best thing to open up heavy clay soil.I assure you they will not talk about perlite.

Personaly i grow my plants to be as happy as possible....yes...except when im experimenting...duh

Finaly ive been growing cps for over two years now-not six months but this isnt the first time youve got it totaly wrong fred g is it?

Gary

[fredg]

wallsg7 said:

Fred g,i was comparing the bigger pitchers to the same plants growing in other mediums : ) sorry i thought that was obvious.

Well no it wasn't really. Previous posts have said that your plants were distributed amongst friends as you didn't have the facilities at home.

wallsg7 said:

As a gardener all my life i know that sharp sand or grit is used to break down heavy clay soils.....not perlite

Agreed, sharp sand is used to break down heavy clay soils. That was not the 'fact' introduced.

Silica grit has sharp,jagged edges.These sharp edges trap more air than perlite

That was.
You have not provided evidence to back that up.

wallsg7 said:

Personaly i grow my plants to be as happy as possible....yes...except when im experimenting...duh

Exactly, we hear of a new experiment almost weekly

wallsg7 said:

Finaly ive been growing cps for over two years now-not six months

Now take yourself back to the beginning of 2007. You'd been growing CPs for how long?

[mindy]

wallsg7 said:

Fred g,i was comparing the bigger pitchers to the same plants growing in other mediums : ) sorry i thought that was obvious.

Different growth points on a single plant will grow different sized pitchers. This experiment would need to run for three or four years to be sure that any results obtained were genuine differences.

Go to your local garden centre-ask them what is the best thing to open up heavy clay soil.I assure you they will not talk about perlite.

Purely hearsay and not evidence that the effect would be the same in peat.

Personaly i grow my plants to be as happy as possible....yes...except when im experimenting...duh

Any experiment to make a plant so unhappy it dies is an experiment too extreme. A proper experiment is one that keeps them all alive but works out what makes them happiest. It saddens me to think anyone can not care if a plant dies because of something they did to it.

[Fred P]

It really wasn't my intent to start a fight in the sandbox so if we could all play nicely again, that would be great. ;D

The question still remains, has anyone ever used or been able to get their hands on a fine grade of perlite?
It's something I would like to try but have been unsuccessful at obtaining it in bulk. Any opinions, comments or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
Fred

[Not a Number]

www.schundler.com/peat-per.htm:

Major points:

- The lowest wet bulk density obtained was 23.3 lb/cu.ft. for a mixture of 25% peat and 75% coarse perlite. The highest wet bulk density was 38.1 lb/cu.ft. for a mixture of 75% peat and 25% fine perlite.

- To fully appreciate the wet density values of these mixtures, it should be noted that wet bulk densities of soils and sands run well over 100 lb/cu.ft.

- Since finer grades of perlite have far more surface area and will hold far more water, it is logical that the highest wet bulk densities occurred with fine grades of perlite and the lowest wet bulk densities occurred with coarse grades.

- Different proportions of perlite to peat had the least amount of influence with the finer grades of perlite, whereas higher proportions of coarse perlite consistently lowered the wet bulk density of the mix. It therefore appears that the finer grades of perlite have water holding capacities similar to peat moss, and coarser grades of perlite provide more aeration and have lower water holding capacities.

- The higher the total porosity, the greater the potential to provide water and air. The smaller the pores,the greater the water retenton and the lower the air supply. Conversely, the larger the pores, the less water retained and the greater the amount of air space in the mixture.

- Peat moss is well known for high porosity and perlite has a similar property. The effect of perlite grade is one of increasing porosity as the gradation becomes coarser. Differences in peat/perlite mixes are not large but are consistent in this respect.

- Another consistent trend is for total porosity to increase modestly as the proportion of peat moss increases regardless of perlite grade. Differences are not great but indicate slightly higher total porosity for the peat mosses used compared to the perlite sources.

- The quantity of water held in a growing medium is best measured on a volume percentage basis. In testing, the lowest water retenton was found in mixtures of 75% coarse perlite and 25% peat, and the highest water retention occurred in mixes with 25% fine perite and 75% peat.

- The general trend is for moisture retention to decline as perlite particle sizes become coarser and to increase as peat moss percentages increase. Overall, the differences are not of high magnitude and the quantity of water held in all cases is substantial compared to sand or soil.

See also:

www.schundler.com/size.htm

Any large nursery supply should sell different grades of perlite.

If you can't find one try contacting the Perlite Institute:

www.perlite.org/

[fredg]

fpasskiewicz said:

It really wasn't my intent to start a fight in the sandbox

Hi Fred

I've no idea what you mean about a fight ;D

I'm simply trying to establish the credibility of a statement that would appear to be totally erroneous.

I didn't think the situation was too aerated