Growing native pitcher plants at city park, help please

[Jeremy Morrow]

  I know the parks director in the city I live in real Well.  Its Ashland City Tn.  They have a trail that used to be rail road tracks that is located by some back water of the river.  Lots of boggy areas and such.  I am trying to talk him into allowing me to reintroduce Pitcher plants and butterwarts that are native to TN.  I googled native plants for Tn and a post from this site showed up.  

"zzresolute
Full Member

Posts: 1

Feb 10, 2008 at 1:30pm QuotelikePost Options Post by zzresolute on Feb 10, 2008 at 1:30pm
Hello, my name is Jeremy I am a Information Systems Specialist by trade. However, I am a Carnivorous plant enthusiast who lives in East Tennessee around the Knoxville area. I have loved CPs since I was about 12, when my mother bought me my first pitcher plant from a K-Mart department store. These plants are both fascinating and amazing. The adaptations that they have made to live in the hydrated soils are nothing short of a miracle. I have several different types of Sarracenias which are my favorite types of CP. I have mass produced and sold CP in the past however I am just a hobby grower now whom loves CPs.

These plants are amazing but in danger too. In Tennessee our native CPs are in trouble. The pitcher plant the Sarracenia Oreophila is considered to be extirpated with the last confirmed plant seen on the Cumberland Plateau in 1979. Our native bladderworts are also in trouble U. cornuta, U. inflata , U. resupinata and U. subulata are all losing ground. Our native Sundew s are also threatened the Drosera brevifolia, capillaris and rotundifolia. As we build communities we are destroying these wonderful plants environments.

I am not a botanist but I am working to try and find a way to save our native plants and make a way to have both houses and CP live in harmony.
If you live in the Tennessee area or have ideas of how to save these beloved plants please post a comment."

 
That is the post anyhow.  The trail is owned by a group and maintained by the city.  They have to approve these things and there main concern is its native, and its not invasive.  I need some one with credibility to help me out.  I will do the rest and I am 99 percent sure I will get repaid for my efforts by someone stealing them.  But thats ok cause Im going to have a second site that is not easily accessed.  

  Now I have had the discussion about bogs before.  Since these are Native plants is what I am suggesting a good idea as long as I post that I have planted these and what types I have planted.  That way if they do spread there would be evidence that they were put there instead of growing naturally.  I will also not plant any species that I am not 100 percent sure were not here originally.  You guys are way smarter than I am and no way more about the impacts of such projects so what is your opinion.  Is this the right thing to do or not?  And If it is is anyone willing to help me create a presentation showing the pros and cons of such a project.  It will be a small display at first, mainly for educational purposes.  I will let it expand naturally and over the years I will help it expand.  Any and all help is appreciated.  All feed back as well, positive or negative

Thank you for your time
Jeremy D Morrow
Ashland city Tn, 37015
[e-mail]

[Jeremy Morrow]

Sept 25, 2013 3:36:18 GMT Jeremy Morrow said:

  I know the parks director in the city I live in real Well.  Its Ashland City Tn.  They have a trail that used to be rail road tracks that is located by some back water of the river.  Lots of boggy areas and such.  I am trying to talk him into allowing me to reintroduce Pitcher plants and butterwarts that are native to TN.  I googled native plants for Tn and a post from this site showed up.  

"zzresolute
Full Member

Posts: 1

Feb 10, 2008 at 1:30pm QuotelikePost Options Post by zzresolute on Feb 10, 2008 at 1:30pm
Hello, my name is Jeremy I am a Information Systems Specialist by trade. However, I am a Carnivorous plant enthusiast who lives in East Tennessee around the Knoxville area. I have loved CPs since I was about 12, when my mother bought me my first pitcher plant from a K-Mart department store. These plants are both fascinating and amazing. The adaptations that they have made to live in the hydrated soils are nothing short of a miracle. I have several different types of Sarracenias which are my favorite types of CP. I have mass produced and sold CP in the past however I am just a hobby grower now whom loves CPs.

These plants are amazing but in danger too. In Tennessee our native CPs are in trouble. The pitcher plant the Sarracenia Oreophila is considered to be extirpated with the last confirmed plant seen on the Cumberland Plateau in 1979. Our native bladderworts are also in trouble U. cornuta, U. inflata , U. resupinata and U. subulata are all losing ground. Our native Sundew s are also threatened the Drosera brevifolia, capillaris and rotundifolia. As we build communities we are destroying these wonderful plants environments.

I am not a botanist but I am working to try and find a way to save our native plants and make a way to have both houses and CP live in harmony.
If you live in the Tennessee area or have ideas of how to save these beloved plants please post a comment."

 
That is the post anyhow.  The trail is owned by a group and maintained by the city.  They have to approve these things and there main concern is its native, and its not invasive.  I need some one with credibility to help me out.  I will do the rest and I am 99 percent sure I will get repaid for my efforts by someone stealing them.  But thats ok cause Im going to have a second site that is not easily accessed.  

  Now I have had the discussion about bogs before.  Since these are Native plants is what I am suggesting a good idea as long as I post that I have planted these and what types I have planted.  That way if they do spread there would be evidence that they were put there instead of growing naturally.  I will also not plant any species that I am not 100 percent sure were not here originally.  You guys are way smarter than I am and no way more about the impacts of such projects so what is your opinion.  Is this the right thing to do or not?  And If it is is anyone willing to help me create a presentation showing the pros and cons of such a project.  It will be a small display at first, mainly for educational purposes.  I will let it expand naturally and over the years I will help it expand.  Any and all help is appreciated.  All feed back as well, positive or negative

Thank you for your time
Jeremy D Morrow
Ashland city Tn, 37015
[e-mail]

If anyone has done anything like this before could you please explain how you did it.  These people are fairly intelligent but they know little about Carnivorous plants or there history.  I don't think it will be a hard sale cause Im only proposing to start off with 4ft by 4ft plot.  Then if its successful and no one steals them we might expand it.  Or perhaps if someone with credibility would sign off on the proposal I come up with to take to them that would help as well.  You don't have to physically sign off on it just read over it and make sure I am doing the right thing and headed in the right direction.  I almost sponsored creating a dog park here this summer but ultimately I knew I could do it but when I asked myself the question If I should do it is when I decided it was the wrong time to do it.  Our town just is not progressive enough I guess you could say.  I have asked myself the same question with this project and so far I don't see any problems other than people stealing the plants.  
   I could also use the help verifying those plants listed are  native to Tennessee.  Like I said I googled it last night and the first thing that popped up was the thread that I reposted.  I still need to do some more homework.  I might go to our local extension and see if they have any information and there are a few university ran gardens that have CP collections I can contact.  I just want to get this okayed As soon as possible so i can ready the spot this winter.  During the summer Cotton mouths call a lot of the area home so I want to get my spot cleared out while they are off sleeping somewhere.  I'm hoping they might help defend the plants during the summer.  
  Also If you think this is a horrible Idea I would like to hear from you and if you think its a great idea I would like to hear from you.  
Thanks for your time
Jeremy Morrow

[adelea]

I have re-introduced Drosera here, mainly Adelae, first you need permission, but once that's covered you need to condition the land, clean an area (weeds, algae, litter, mud, ect) then you need to check the soil ph and salinity, also plant at the right time of year, either early spring or just after the wet season (so heavy rain doesn't wash them away), if all of this is good you will need to put a cage in initially with the plants, preferably a dome, this will 1 let the plants establish with less movement and 2 prevent poachers or more importantly animals taking/eating the plants, if you have deer or possums they are your main problem, then after a few months (8-12months) the plants should be fairly established and the cage can be removed, but being a regulated area my guess is that it will be poisoned now and then for weed control, so you will need signage to prevent poison and trampling, I would suggest placing them in clumps, wit sarracenia on the outside then utrics and drosera within, this will add to the protection from trampling, but here is the real problem, officially you can skip this but I believe its important, you will need seed or plants that originate from the area, anything within 20km should be fine, if you take say a U.resupinata from 100km down the Rd you will find its different to the ones native to your area, this will be a challenge, but generally sample plants in small populations can be found, then you need seed and of course a collectors permit, I don't know what American law is like but i'm guessing that taking a sarracenia seed is like poaching nepenthes in Aust, lots of trouble, so get the papers, and remember not the forget soil conditioning, one Drosera adelae population I resetsablished was at a Rd works, the mountain had been blown apart for a Road upgrade/move, luckily I had plants that were seed from this site (intentionally collected once plans to make the road were cleared), First I cleared litter (steel, tar and timber mostly) but I was lucky as I just waited for the wet season to wash the mud away, after this I planted out a species of native moss, then after several months the moss had spread enough so I planted some drosera, many months on and they spread, the colony is now healthy and stable.

Hope this helps, But as I said I'm not from the USA so my laws are different.

[Jeremy Morrow]

Sept 25, 2013 21:21:31 GMT adelea said:

I have re-introduced Drosera here, mainly Adelae, first you need permission, but once that's covered you need to condition the land, clean an area (weeds, algae, litter, mud, ect) then you need to check the soil ph and salinity, also plant at the right time of year, either early spring or just after the wet season (so heavy rain doesn't wash them away), if all of this is good you will need to put a cage in initially with the plants, preferably a dome, this will 1 let the plants establish with less movement and 2 prevent poachers or more importantly animals taking/eating the plants, if you have deer or possums they are your main problem, then after a few months (8-12months) the plants should be fairly established and the cage can be removed, but being a regulated area my guess is that it will be poisoned now and then for weed control, so you will need signage to prevent poison and trampling, I would suggest placing them in clumps, wit sarracenia on the outside then utrics and drosera within, this will add to the protection from trampling, but here is the real problem, officially you can skip this but I believe its important, you will need seed or plants that originate from the area, anything within 20km should be fine, if you take say a U.resupinata from 100km down the Rd you will find its different to the ones native to your area, this will be a challenge, but generally sample plants in small populations can be found, then you need seed and of course a collectors permit, I don't know what American law is like but i'm guessing that taking a sarracenia seed is like poaching nepenthes in Aust, lots of trouble, so get the papers, and remember not the forget soil conditioning, one Drosera adelae population I resetsablished was at a Rd works, the mountain had been blown apart for a Road upgrade/move, luckily I had plants that were seed from this site (intentionally collected once plans to make the road were cleared), First I cleared litter (steel, tar and timber mostly) but I was lucky as I just waited for the wet season to wash the mud away, after this I planted out a species of native moss, then after several months the moss had spread enough so I planted some drosera, many months on and they spread, the colony is now healthy and stable.

Hope this helps, But as I said I'm not from the USA so my laws are different.

That does help some.  One of the main issues with seed is I have never seen a Carnivorous plant here in my life.  The last recorded sighting was in 1979 so I will be reintroducing them.  I am going to dig through some of my literature I have so and use quotes from them to prove they are not invasive and I am not sure how I will prove they are native to this area with there being such little documentation of them ever being here.  I Know the park director and staff personally so they will not be a problem, people using the trail and wildlife will be.  If I get permission I am going to have a hidden site to draw from if the display gets compromised.  I think once they see how pretty the plants are and learn they will be the only  trail in the state to have such a display they will be as excited as I am.  I am not for sure it will be the only trail with a display like this but I can't find any info to prove other wise so I will not be technically Lying.  Thanks for the info I will copy that and put as much of it as possible to use.  

     

[Jeremy Morrow]

Sept 25, 2013 21:21:31 GMT adelea said:

I have re-introduced Drosera here, mainly Adelae, first you need permission, but once that's covered you need to condition the land, clean an area (weeds, algae, litter, mud, ect) then you need to check the soil ph and salinity, also plant at the right time of year, either early spring or just after the wet season (so heavy rain doesn't wash them away), if all of this is good you will need to put a cage in initially with the plants, preferably a dome, this will 1 let the plants establish with less movement and 2 prevent poachers or more importantly animals taking/eating the plants, if you have deer or possums they are your main problem, then after a few months (8-12months) the plants should be fairly established and the cage can be removed, but being a regulated area my guess is that it will be poisoned now and then for weed control, so you will need signage to prevent poison and trampling, I would suggest placing them in clumps, wit sarracenia on the outside then utrics and drosera within, this will add to the protection from trampling, but here is the real problem, officially you can skip this but I believe its important, you will need seed or plants that originate from the area, anything within 20km should be fine, if you take say a U.resupinata from 100km down the Rd you will find its different to the ones native to your area, this will be a challenge, but generally sample plants in small populations can be found, then you need seed and of course a collectors permit, I don't know what American law is like but i'm guessing that taking a sarracenia seed is like poaching nepenthes in Aust, lots of trouble, so get the papers, and remember not the forget soil conditioning, one Drosera adelae population I resetsablished was at a Rd works, the mountain had been blown apart for a Road upgrade/move, luckily I had plants that were seed from this site (intentionally collected once plans to make the road were cleared), First I cleared litter (steel, tar and timber mostly) but I was lucky as I just waited for the wet season to wash the mud away, after this I planted out a species of native moss, then after several months the moss had spread enough so I planted some drosera, many months on and they spread, the colony is now healthy and stable.

Hope this helps, But as I said I'm not from the USA so my laws are different.

Sept 26, 2013 1:09:02 GMT Jeremy Morrow said:

Sept 25, 2013 21:21:31 GMT adelea said:

I have re-introduced Drosera here, mainly Adelae, first you need permission, but once that's covered you need to condition the land, clean an area (weeds, algae, litter, mud, ect) then you need to check the soil ph and salinity, also plant at the right time of year, either early spring or just after the wet season (so heavy rain doesn't wash them away), if all of this is good you will need to put a cage in initially with the plants, preferably a dome, this will 1 let the plants establish with less movement and 2 prevent poachers or more importantly animals taking/eating the plants, if you have deer or possums they are your main problem, then after a few months (8-12months) the plants should be fairly established and the cage can be removed, but being a regulated area my guess is that it will be poisoned now and then for weed control, so you will need signage to prevent poison and trampling, I would suggest placing them in clumps, wit sarracenia on the outside then utrics and drosera within, this will add to the protection from trampling, but here is the real problem, officially you can skip this but I believe its important, you will need seed or plants that originate from the area, anything within 20km should be fine, if you take say a U.resupinata from 100km down the Rd you will find its different to the ones native to your area, this will be a challenge, but generally sample plants in small populations can be found, then you need seed and of course a collectors permit, I don't know what American law is like but i'm guessing that taking a sarracenia seed is like poaching nepenthes in Aust, lots of trouble, so get the papers, and remember not the forget soil conditioning, one Drosera adelae population I resetsablished was at a Rd works, the mountain had been blown apart for a Road upgrade/move, luckily I had plants that were seed from this site (intentionally collected once plans to make the road were cleared), First I cleared litter (steel, tar and timber mostly) but I was lucky as I just waited for the wet season to wash the mud away, after this I planted out a species of native moss, then after several months the moss had spread enough so I planted some drosera, many months on and they spread, the colony is now healthy and stable.

Hope this helps, But as I said I'm not from the USA so my laws are different.

That does help some.  One of the main issues with seed is I have never seen a Carnivorous plant here in my life.  The last recorded sighting was in 1979 so I will be reintroducing them.  I am going to dig through some of my literature I have so and use quotes from them to prove they are not invasive and I am not sure how I will prove they are native to this area with there being such little documentation of them ever being here.  I Know the park director and staff personally so they will not be a problem, people using the trail and wildlife will be.  If I get permission I am going to have a hidden site to draw from if the display gets compromised.  I think once they see how pretty the plants are and learn they will be the only  trail in the state to have such a display they will be as excited as I am.  I am not for sure it will be the only trail with a display like this but I can't find any info to prove other wise so I will not be technically Lying.  Thanks for the info I will copy that and put as much of it as possible to use.  


While waiting for the group that owns the trail and Parks department to decided if they wanted to do this project or not I got curious as to why plants that were here in 1979, in the state not the site they are proposing, are no longer here.  As I read about the environmental impacts farms have on wetlands It dawned on me there is no need for them to decide anything its been decided for us.  This trail is 8 miles long and is a ideal habitat for these plants or would be if at least 4 miles of it was not surrounded by Farm land.  Also the trail itself sits on top of a rail road line last used in the 1980s.  The creek that supplies the  backwater that creates the bogs rolls through countless farms on its way to the river.  I am just taking a wild guess here but If I had a few million dollars I might be able to get one square foot of land suitable for growing.  I think I will just take the money and donate it to you guys instead of throwing it away and keep my time.  I understood why conservationist keep sites secret from a poacher stand point but It never dawned on me that there is more at stake then just the plants.  The habitat is just as rare.  I will still take some soil samples but I think I will just stick to growing them for a hobby.  I would like to see them in the wild but pictures of them are just as nice.  I did learn a lot anyhow.  I always have heard how important wet lands are but I didn't fully appreciate what that meant.  Knowing something just because you have heard it so many times is one thing, these plants have helped me make that connection as to why its important.  
  I am going to start cultivating Venus flytraps and hold a class once a year for kids at the park.  I will give the kids a little education on the plant, and then send them home with one.  That will be the most effective contribution, besides donations, I can make for this county.  I would wager that even with all the wetlands we have in this county you would be hard pressed to find a area that could sustain these plants.  What isn't Farm land is subdivisions built on farmland and such.  There is a lot of woods but very little old growth forest if any.  There is a spot on my parents land that might have a chance.  It has not been farmed in my life time and its a spring fed creek.  But Its deep off in the woods and it would require cutting down quite a few trees and I don't see any need to kill that many trees for something thats going to have such a small impact.  Maybe one day I will earn some trust and see a site or two but for now I think I will just concentrate on enjoying growing them and sharing it with whoever will take the time.    
     

[adelea]

In Australia some plants have benefited from human impact, cephalotus and nepenthes mirabilis grow well in disturbed paddock, I have seen the local mirabilis colony grow since the forest near them was cleared to make a larger road, the plants grew back and claimed more land, however I have also seen utric and drosera populations wiped out from such activities, another point is that in our local area the council made a wetlands, or rather more expanded it, now the problem their where utricularia there, 5 types and in numbers, now only 1 type is still there, although they increased the wetlands area they somehow wiped out the other utrics, several years on and still no recovery. Odd right, no, by digging new dams and swamps they changed the Ph, this inturn killed the utrics, except the one that's ore tolerant to change (gibba) which now thrives.
So just a heads up to anyone wanting to "improve the environment" you have to do your research and condition the land properly.