starting flytrap seeds?

[vraev]

THanks VFTfreak.

BTW Aidan...good news. The mail was late....but after a month in the transit from across the province...the seeds have finally arrived.

BTW...you are scaring me there? can u pls tell me how old are the seeds that I got from ya??

thanks,

V

[Aidan]

Glad to hear it.

Harvested in July and August. Dried to well below atmospheric moisture levels (every 1% reduction in moisture content doubles seed storage life). Correctly stored and supplied in a sealed, airtight packet.

Once seed leaves my facility, the matter is out of my hands. The clock ticks fast with Dionaea seed and my advice to you is the same as already given.

[vraev]

meh! too many things to worry about . Just had to move again FOR 14 days as university kicks us out for christmas. -10C outside...and my freaking finicky neps. The basement is suited for ultrahighlanders....damn the bical won't like it!

Anyways...I am over the 100 days already. Don't worry..I won't come after you if there is germination issues. However, I will pot them up today.

[venusflytrapfreak]

fischermans, thanks for the photos!! Can't wait to get my little baby flytraps going!!!

Thanks,
Ricky

[Steve D]

venusflytrapfreak said:

Thanks Aidan! I will store them in a dry, sealed container, and put the in the fridge. I appreciate everyone giving me advice.

Thanks,
Ricky Haag

Ricky, if you don't need to wait (for practical reasons), then you might want to sow them now (whenever you get the seeds), if you can keep them in a reasonably warm place to germinate and begin their growth.

The seeds I harvest I keep in the refrigerator until I sow them, sell them, or give them to seed banks. Including the 48 packets I sent to the ICPS seed bank yesterday, I've sent about 120 packs of VFT seed to the ICPS this year, so joining the ICPS and ordering from their seed bank is a cheap and easy way to get seed.

I'm ready to send a replacement for your recent seed order if the first shipment doesn't arrive. Just let me know.

Steve
Flytrap Ranch

[venusflytrapfreak]

Thanks Steve!!! I do appreciate it so much!! I have a pot ready and I will leave them in the Florida room and get them started right away!! The seeds didn't arrive today either (Sat. 22). They probably got lost in all the Holiday mail!! Thanks for all you help!!!

Ricky Haag

[Steve D]

aidan said:

(...)
Dried to well below atmospheric moisture levels (every 1% reduction in moisture content doubles seed storage life). (...)

This is very interesting. Perhaps the naturally dry climate where I live (in eastern New Mexico, US) helps me in this regard. I allow my harvested Venus Flytrap seeds to dry in the open air for several days before refrigerating them.

Aidan, do you know if there is some reference material on the Internet regarding the reduction of moisture content of seeds and their longevity? Where did you get this information from? It would be interesting to read.

I plan to save some VFT seed harvested this year (June-July, 2007), and sow it next May, 2008. I plan to count out exactly 100 seeds, sow them and see what the germination rate is after about a year of storage. This year, when sowed shortly after collection, the germination rate seems to have been about 85-95%. The seeds began to germinate in 13 days, with 1 to several germinating every day for a few weeks. When germination seemed to cease (no newly germinated seeds for about two weeks), there were only a few (less than a dozen) ungerminated seeds visible on the germination chamber medium surface, of the couple hundred seed I had originally sown.

I germinate my seed separately and then transplant them to a more permanent growing container within a day or two of germination, for two reasons: I can space the young plants at a distance from each other when transplanting, and I can immediately begin to grow them in drier conditions to help prevent damp-off fungus and (for the most part) algae growth, watering them usually from below. The germination chamber, on the other hand, is kept very moist during germination, with (in my dry climate) a ventilated lid to retard drying. The lid is lifted every day and the air fanned for fresh air exchange.

I guess there are as many growing techniques as there are growers, and everyone must develop techniques that work in their particular climate. I know a CP enthusiast in Uruguay who has had lots of trouble with the overgrowth of algae in containers of very young Venus Flytraps. He tried using sulfur to kill the algae (which unfortunately killed the plants), but through experimentation developed a regimen using sulfuric acid and benzalkonium chloride (in Spanish, amonio cuaternario--I had to ask him what that chemical was in English), which has eliminated the algae but not harmed the young VFT seedlings. In my dry climate, with my on-the-dry-side growing techniques, I don't have a problem with algae, but I'm guessing that others in different circumstances do.

-Steve

[Brian Barnes]

Steve, that was very nice of you to go out of your way to help a new CP'er! Cudos! Brian.

[Aidan]

xscd said:

aidan said:

Dried to well below atmospheric moisture levels (every 1% reduction in moisture content doubles seed storage life).

Where did you get this information from?

From the people who know with the best seed storage facility in the world - The Millennium Seed Bank Project. I am fortunate to know someone that works on the project and was given a behind the scenes tour of the facility a couple of years ago.

As a direct quote, the figure is on this page:

www.kew.org/msbp/what/knowledge/seed_drying.htm

When it comes to long term storage of (most) seed, lowering of moisture content is the critical factor. Refrigeration simply extends seed longevity further.

[Steve D]

Regarding a source for information about drying seed, lowering moisture content for more long term viability--

aidan said:

From the people who know with the best seed storage facility in the world - The Millennium Seed Bank Project. I am fortunate to know someone that works on the project and was given a behind the scenes tour of the facility a couple of years ago.

As a direct quote, the figure is on this page:

www.kew.org/msbp/what/knowledge/seed_drying.htm

When it comes to long term storage of (most) seed, lowering of moisture content is the critical factor. Refrigeration simply extends seed longevity further.

Thank you very much for this link and interesting information, Aidan.

Here in New Mexico, US, with our desert-dry conditions in much of the state, there is an interesting story (its truth seems to be in dispute) about some bean seeds found in a sealed clay jar in a cave at an ancient Anasazi Indian settlement. Supposedly some of the seeds germinated. But the currently available Anasazi beans may have come from other sources where this particular bean was kept in cultivation during those many years.

More info (perhaps legend) about the Anasazi bean:
www.ellenskitchen.com/recipebox/beanspeas2.html
waltonfeed.com/self/beans.html#anasazi

-Steve

[Steve D]

drosera5150 said:

Steve, that was very nice of you to go out of your way to help a new CP'er! Cudos! Brian.

Thanks. Contributing seed to seed banks is a nice way to help out.

I enjoyed letting quite a few of my Venus Flytraps produce seed this year. All of those plants were mature and vigorous, in robust good health, so none were harmed by being allowed to flower and set seed, although it reduced their leaf growth a little for a time. I harvested many thousands of seed (I'm sure more than 10,000), which is much more than I needed to fill orders at my website, so I sent a lot of seed to the ICPS here in the US, about 1000 to a seed bank in the UK, 1000 to a grower in South America and lots of seed to growers in various countries such as Thailand this year.

I enjoy knowing that cultivation of these plants is ongoing and (hopefully) increasing even as their natural habitat is being destroyed by our society's idea of "growth" and "progress." I have fantasized about buying some property near Wilmington, North Carolina here in the US, to prevent its "development" for human habitation and create a Venus Flytrap reserve in the area of their historical natural habitat. Just a nice dream at the moment-- ;D

-Steve

[venusflytrapfreak]

Steve, thanks again for sending out the replacement seeds!!! You are very helpful and answered my emails quickly!!!
I also always wanted to buy land in that area to have a Venus Flytrap Oasis!!! LOL.. I will have to do with my mini flytrap bog here in Florida!!! It's just been to warm here lately, and hope it won't kill my plants!!!! There has to be some Canadian air coming here sometime soon!!! I can't wait to start the seeds and I will take pictures and hope to be able to post them!!

Ricky Haag

[venusflytrapfreak]

Aidan, I liked the link you had for seed storage, very interesting..Thanks!!! I was wanting to be able to make some terrium that could have a climate control to grow flytraps like their natural habitat. I am sure that would cost big bucks!!

Ricky Haag

[DelawareJim]

I'm looking at having a go at my first seeds too. How wet should you keep them while germinating? Logic says the keep them a bit drier than adults to prevent seed rot? Or treat them just like adults?

Thanks.
Cheers.
Jim