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Post by chibae on Jul 5, 2010 13:12:28 GMT
Coming to cps from the world of orchids has me very confused, to say the least.
I am used to the concept of registering hybreds between two species with the RHS, but cultivar names are reserved for individual plants that their owners have bestowed upon them. ie SLC Jewel Box "dark waters". SLC Jewel Box is the hybred name. Anyone can do the required cross breeding to make one and call it that. Dark waters is the cultivar or clonal name for those plants that are directly tc'ed from the orginal award winning plant of that name.
When I read of the new cultivars of sarrs in my first issue of the quarterly newsletter I had no idea why some of these plants were being registered. Just to be the first to make a cross?
thanks
chibae
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Post by peterhewitt on Jul 5, 2010 17:36:21 GMT
As far as Sarracenia are concerned a "cultivar" refers to an individual plant chosen for displaying a specific trait or number of traits. These can come from simple crosses or complex. Or even from a pure species.
Cultivar simply means, cultivated variety. One plant that stands out from its siblings. These individual plants can only be propagated vegetatively to maintain these traits.
I'm fairly sure most carnivorous plant cultivars work this way. As to how to register them and how that works, i have no clue.
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Post by chibae on Jul 5, 2010 17:45:13 GMT
As far as Sarracenia are concerned a "cultivar" refers to an individual plant chosen for displaying a specific trait or number of traits. These can come from simple crosses or complex. Or even from a pure species. Cultivar simply means, cultivated variety. One plant that stands out from its siblings. These individual plants can only be propagated vegetatively to maintain these traits. I'm fairly sure most carnivorous plant cultivars work this way. As to how to register them and how that works, i have no clue. Thank you for answering, it's a shame though that for some the traits can only be progpagated vegetatively, image the possibility of having a superior specimen of a species with the ability to pass that onto it's progeny. Thoughts of a breeding program are starting to form |
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Post by Not a Number on Jul 5, 2010 19:33:12 GMT
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Post by peterhewitt on Jul 5, 2010 19:42:24 GMT
Thank you for clearing that up for us Not a Number!
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Post by Aidan on Jul 5, 2010 19:43:10 GMT
As far as Orchids go, I believe that you are referring to the Grex system. Cultivar rules are the same for any group of plants. In essence, to establish a cultivar a description must be published. That description may be anywhere from a simple one line entry in a nursery catalogue, to a very detailed description in a learned journal. The rules for doing so are set out in the International Code for Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) and are applied by the International Cultivar Registration Authority (ICRA) for a particular group of plants - The ICPS is the ICRA for carnivorous plants and many (though by no means all) cultivars are established by publication in the Carnivorous Plant Newsletter (CPN). How a cultivar is to be propagated may be specified in the published description, but it is not a requirement.A cultivar description may be applicable to a single plant that is only to be propagated by vegetative means. But, it does not have to be - it depends upon the published description. As an example, the description for Sarracenia 'Green Rosette' states "This cultivar name applies to anthocyanin-free clones of [Sarracenia psittacina {Michx.}]..." and therefore may be applied to all anthocyanin-free forms of S. psittacina even though those forms may differ quite considerably. Other cultivars may be raised from seed. It all depends upon the description... Edit: Looks like NaN beat me to it.  |
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Post by ICPS-bob on Jul 5, 2010 20:07:28 GMT
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Post by chibae on Jul 5, 2010 20:25:23 GMT
thank you all, not arguing for a different system, just trying to understand this one
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Post by Dave Evans on Jul 13, 2010 23:34:18 GMT
Hello,
I don't really see the two systems as each being a replacement for the other. Each one has its benefits and I'm comfortable using both systems, the normal cultivar system set up by ICPS and the breeders' very useful and detailed grex system.
Each system covers the plants information in slightly different ways and grex type system really is needed as hybrids of Nepenthes and Sarracenia are becoming just as complex as orchid hybrids have been for a long while now...
Cultivars are more for the end buyer, while the grex names are often more important to breeders. In both of these groups, neps and sarrs, most everyone dabbles in making hybrids now and then; so with regards to CP's everyone benefits from there being two systems.
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Post by Alexis on Jul 21, 2010 15:04:04 GMT
With orchids, will you get the exact same looking plant each time if you cross plant A with plant B?
With sarracenia, the variation is so wild that siblings can look nothing alike.
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Post by sdjames on Aug 7, 2010 21:40:29 GMT
My experience in the 80s and 90s with making over a dozen orchid crosses showed me that hybrids between complex hybrids would often result in wild mixes of offspring. Hybrids between species or line-bred plants (like white phalaenopsis) were much more uniform. Still, there was always variation, and there were always surprises.
This is year 1 for me making sarracenia hybrids, so I can't speak from my own experience. But sarracenia hybrids from other folks that I've grown so far seem to mirror what happens in orchids: the crazier the gene pool, the crazier the variation. Also, first-generation primary hybrids seem much more uniform than selfings or sibling crosses using the first generation as parents. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone else has observed.
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