Green Hornet
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Post by Green Hornet on May 16, 2009 21:52:23 GMT
Howdy y'all! Anybody out there tried the newer 45-50w LED grow lights? I've used different multiples and variations of standard 40w fluorescents for years to grow all kinds of plants, CPs and others. Still, I've always considered them very inefficient and substandard replacements for natural light. I'm not into using the HID or HPS lights as they are hot and attract the wrong kind of attention. But, lately I've also been reading some interesting things about LED grow lights. Some of the pathetically small number of reviews seem mixed, but others indicate the technology is improving. What I'm looking for is someone who has tried them on CPs and can articulate their 2 cents... eh?
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Post by kulamauiman on May 17, 2009 2:32:02 GMT
Right now I am testing a 12"X12" , 15 watt panel. So far don't seem to have any problems, plants look OK, but then again this is with Drosera adelea. Might see more issues if i was playing with a species that wanted more light. Test less than a week or so old so wont know just yet.......
Mach Fukada
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spark
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Post by spark on May 17, 2009 2:43:15 GMT
I've been thinking of getting some for my someday heli. Since they're cool it would make lighting without overheating a much easier issue. Haven't actually used any yet though.
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Green Hornet
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Post by Green Hornet on May 21, 2009 15:33:25 GMT
Well, I was hoping that I might get some feedback on this from folks with CPs before taking this plunge, but responses were just too slow in coming. So I bought a couple of 50w LED growlights after reading feedback from folks that are having good results growing other less legal greenery. I've been growing quite a few different cultivars of Dionaea and a dozen or so Neps under fluorescents for about 5 years. Now, I'll see how happy they are growing under LED light. I'll keep y'all posted on how these are working out for me. LATER....
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Post by kulamauiman on Jun 8, 2009 19:11:55 GMT
keep in mind this is a 15 watt unit and D. adelea is a plant that doesn't like bright light. I have it in a tank in my office some light from the windows. The colors are not quite what I would like and the plants appear to be stretching for the lights. The stowaway U. longifolia definitely want more light. It is a cooler lighting system temp wise. In the long run may not be too practical for me. I think I can do the same with a row of 10 gallon tanks and a 2 bulb 4 foot shop light....... Mach Fukada
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Post by jesser on Jul 18, 2009 16:15:01 GMT
Anybody out there tried the newer 45-50w LED grow lights? Do you mean those grow panels sold at eBay with only red and blue LEDs which make your plants look ugly like hell? I didn't try them but I use homemade lighting built from white high-power LED (CREE XR-E, white, 6500K, 350mA constant current) for a small propagator. At least Drosera leaf cuttings are doing very well with white high-power LED lighting.
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Post by RL7836 on Jul 21, 2009 16:28:17 GMT
I didn't try them but I use homemade lighting built from white high-power LED (CREE XR-E, white, 6500K, 350mA constant current) for a small propagator. All of the LED's I've seen have been underpowered, weak little wastes. I struggled to see how they could ever power grow lights. However, a week ago I had the opportunity to see a friend's Fenix flashlight. A tiny (1 AA battery) light produced more candlepower than my 3-D-cell Maglite! This thing had very white light & was powered by a Cree LED. After seeing this unit, I can now envision LEDs becoming useful in all sorts of lighting applications.
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Green Hornet
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Post by Green Hornet on Jul 27, 2009 3:53:10 GMT
Well, I started this thread quite a while ago, so I reckon updating it would be the least I could do. Bear in mind that my goal, here, is to look at the state of plant lighting other than T-12 fluorescents. I'm also not interested in HID or HPS lights. Besides the considerable heat issues, they are simply yesterday's news and I want to avoid being lumped in with the same kind of growers as those from whom I gathered some of this data.
I started by looking at as many different types of alternate plant lighting as I could find, LEDs, T-8 and T-5 fluorescent rigs of all sorts, etc. LEDs have come a long way, but the info about them is still sparse and comes mostly either anecdotally or from from those that are selling them... and yes, many of those are on eBay. I have discovered that some of these are not so bad. You just need to do your homework. I bought two tri-color (red, blue and full spectrum) 12"x12" 45 watt versions from an eBay store selling "cheap Chinese knockoffs" and two more from another eBay "Growers" store that had thousands of positive feedbacks. They looked nearly identical. The plan is to use them the way I was using the 48" T-12 fluorescents and see how they do.
What makes LEDs interesting, is that the light spectrum they produce can be tailored to the need. Plants do not use all of the light we see, but they use more than just the red spectrum, which though important, characterized most of the earlier versions of these grow lights. The 45 watt tri-color versions produce a lot of usable plant light.
I hung all 4 about an inch or so above the top of a 48" terrarium containing 8 six inch pots, each with 4 to 6 (or more) Fly Traps of various cultivars, half of these red and half green. All were alive, but under 4 T-12 48" tubes, and looking lanky and anemic despite the 15 hour light cycle. The red cultivars had red streaks and patches but were mostly green. One pot of the wrongly named cultivar "Big Mouth" fly traps didn't look like it would make it at all. Within one week of hanging the new LED lights, all of the fly traps "stood up" and the red ones began turning, well... red. In the just about 2 months since I started using the LEDs, the fly traps have changed. The reds seem smaller but are crimson/black and the green typicals are growing like weeds (no not that kind). One pot of B-52s with a few huge traps, dropped all the big traps and immediately started producing shorter smaller traps. I'm told that too much of the red light causes healthy but smaller plant growth. Whether this has any basis in reality I don't know. They all look healthier than ever before now.
About the lights themselves.... individually they don't produce that much heat, but 4 of them made the bedroom they were in warmer than the rest of the house by about 10-15 degrees. Also the LED grow lights are not as durable as the LED flashlights I have seen before and they seem to be affected by the heat they generate. The two lights I purchased from the "reputable" eBay "Grow" store had 2 or three rows of lights each that simply stopped working. This problem stopped occurring when I removed the backs from the lights and allowed the heat to dissipate rather than build up in their small but poorly ventilated cases. This practice would not earn the Good Housekeeping seal of approval. The two "Chinese knockoffs" have had no problems and are working at 100%.
Oddly, I have switched the lighting on these very same fly traps to a 6 tube T-5 rig I'm also trying out, and moved these LEDs to another 48" terrarium with 10 N. Ampullaria in it. They like a little more shade, so I cut back their light cycle to compensate somewhat for the higher light levels. I hope that works. I realize most folks will not find this info useful and will continue to use the 48" shop lights I have used myself for years. I'm just convinced current technology can do better. More + pics to come.
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Post by reaper on Aug 7, 2009 11:33:40 GMT
this is very interesting. i am just starting out, and i plan to fill a fishbowl with a couple of drosera. The only lamp that i have found in my storage is a 30 years old 100 watt ormalight fluorescent bulb, which is obviously overkill in terms of heat production, light production and power consumption for a fishbowl, so i was looking into the possibility of purchasing a LED light from ebay or a local growshop (the less legal shops). My fishbowl will be in a pretty bright spot already, so its only for the bit extra light in the more darker days, and i would guess that 8-10 watt should be sufficient for me. I'll stay tuned for the "more" and the pics as i'm very interested.
EDIT: I ordered a small 11 watt LED grow light from e-bay. 168 leds, red:blue 8:1 I dont have any other lamps to compare the effect with, but maybe i can provide some information in the future about that light and how my plants thrive under it. But first of all... i have to wait for it to arive (ordered it from a chinese company. 13 euro (~18 USD))
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Green Hornet
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Post by Green Hornet on Nov 8, 2009 20:29:00 GMT
Started this thread 2 or 3 blue moons ago now. I have learned a thing or two since then. First thing, higher powered LED lights DO work and work well. I've seen the post about them making the plants look like hell. Sorry, that's just crap. I am talking about Red/Blue or Red/White/Blue (patriotism notwithstanding) LED lights in the 45 watt range or better. The lighter duty low wattage LED lights won't get the job done as a replacement for standard 40 watt fluorescent shoplights... and let's face it... that's the goal here. As I mentioned earlier, I've used those T-12s for years on CPs and they work ok... but only ok. I'm looking at a number of other options if only to see how well they do work. Dionaea in particular, seem very happy under the high power LEDs. In fact, I also tried one of the T-5 VHO fixtures... a Current 6 tube 48" T-5 unit intended for use with reef aquariums. Pricy, but in some ways, not as effective as 3 or 4 12" square 45 watt LEDs lights on a 55 gallon terrarium, especially for Dionaea. This Current T-5 unit is now sitting over my 55 gallon Nepenthes tank with a dozen Ampullaria (half Cantley's Red, half Harlequin or Tri-color) in it. These variations of Neps prefer a bit more shade. With my new fancy ass light, I proceeded to fry the living hell out of them and actually killed a couple before I figured out how to control the output a little. Sh_t happens. I've worked in video production and video graphic design for most of what passes for my career and I know a thing or two about lighting. It's temp and intensity can be altered. Enter Lee gels. I know, I've heard the naysayers about using gels or filters for plant lighting and it's certainly true that you can't go down to Hobby Lobby and pick up some clear red plastic and make your previously insufficient or inefficient lighting work fine. Again, knowledge is power. Do your homework. Gels or filters that create a lighting profile with 80-95% Red and 30-50% Blue (Lee filters #793 Vanity Fair or even #795 Magical Magenta) seem to work very well, especially with high output fixtures. For more info on those: www.leefiltersusa.com/lighting/products/colours/ref:C4630710CC17CD/ . Obviously, I'm still working on this, but take my word about NOTHING! Do your own homework before you tell me I'm full of crap. Then, I'll be happy to take it like a man. LATER!
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taz6122
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Post by taz6122 on Nov 9, 2009 9:30:18 GMT
Were there some Blue lights mixed in on the VHO system? Normally a reef system has 10,000K lights in the mix.
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Green Hornet
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Post by Green Hornet on Nov 9, 2009 13:23:51 GMT
Yep, the setup originally came with 3 10,000K tubes and 3 actinic tubes. I subbed out the actinic for 3 more 10,000K tubes and it became a white light monster indeed. That's why the ampullarias balked at it till I got the photoperiod down to something they could actually use. That combined with the aforementioned light filters and now the plants are healing up nicely.
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taz6122
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Post by taz6122 on Nov 9, 2009 13:42:31 GMT
IMHO you did the opposite you should have. 4100K-6500K are the bulbs you should have used. The filters were a waste of $$ and so were the extra 10,000K bulbs IMHO when you could have used the proper bulbs. I'm not saying you're color blind but they should have became Blue Light Specials with all 10,000K.
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Green Hornet
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Post by Green Hornet on Nov 10, 2009 3:18:42 GMT
Thanks for that vote of confidence Taz. Would you care to explain why the actinic would have been better? I genuinely do not know much about the spectral efficacy of actinic lighting and would appreciate the advice.
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taz6122
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Post by taz6122 on Nov 10, 2009 8:50:50 GMT
The Kelvin rating on a bulb is the resulting color from a mix of wavelengths. Most fluorescents are full spectrum but in order to give plants the best usable light then the peaks must be in the correct spectrums. 4100k-6500k lights have the peaks in those areas IMHO. A 10,000k bulb has little to no usable light in the red and far red regions. It's peak is in the blue region and that alone wont grow terrestrial plants. I'm still learning myself but so far I've noticed that as the bulbs get old you need to supplement the far red region because it seems to be the first to degrade. I've been doing that with the T12s by replacing one of the 4 bulbs with a 3000k bulb. I hope this explains things.
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