kby
Full Member
Posts: 162
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Post by kby on Aug 28, 2008 17:32:28 GMT
François, Good call. Andreas did say an error must have occured somewhere (so at least I get a free plant out of it ).-kby
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Post by Sockhom on Aug 28, 2008 21:03:05 GMT
I knew it ;D! Now you have two plants. Well done ! François.
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Post by Dave Evans on Aug 28, 2008 21:49:51 GMT
Remember that the green form spread in cultivation isn't described. The type form is the reddish H. heterodoxa from Ptari Tepui. Yeah, that is true. However, I have never seen a photograph of an example of a pure H. heterodoxa from Ptari Tepui. All the photos I have seen look like they are hybrids with some other species. Perhaps a pure form of it does grow on Ptari, but people instead focus on photography of the redder hybrid plants... Perhaps someone who's visited Ptari could explain this oddity, I've noticed? I've spoken at length with some people who have visited the Gran Sabana, naturalists Bill Scholl and Jim Bockowski, and they are not convinced about the species delineations and say there is no way to clearly define the various populations into discrete species... That just about every plant in each location they visited and looked at had varying morphological differences, the only plants looking about the same also appeared to be old plants which had asexually divided over the years. Now, Pitcher Plants of the Americas by Stewart McPherson paints a very different view of these plants. But then again, Stewart has also reconized more species than ever before, I suppose to accommodate all the variations... And he mentions there are probably a couple more undescribed species from the southern mountians... Hmm. I do think Stewart would have a better understanding of Heliamphora considering he spent a lot more time researching many locations and I also think the newer species, like H. chimantensis, H. folliculata and H. hispida are discrete species. Not so sure about the rest though.
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Post by Sockhom on Aug 29, 2008 8:08:07 GMT
Hi Dave . Why do you think the H. heterodoxa from Ptari Tepui might be a hybrid (with H. sarracenioides?)? This form,as far as I know, is not only distinguished from the green form by its colour but also by the shape of the pitcher. Stewart's pictures of the heterodoxa from Ptari Tepui (page 132) show real heterodoxa to me. Look at the the huge helmet-like spoon Which other species do you found doubtful? Friendly, François.
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Post by Dave Evans on Aug 29, 2008 18:47:10 GMT
Well, I have no idea about whether examples of "pure" H. heterdoxa would even be able to occur on Ptari... Heliamphora occupy such small areas, where do the hybrids end and the "true" species begin when more than one species overlap? All the photos I've seen of Ptari "heterdoxa" appear to show a plant with a very wide nectar spoon some of these spoons appear to be nearly half the circumference of the pitcher opening; approaching the lid shape of H. sarracenioides. Perhaps, this is an artifact for me. I have been growing H. heterdoxa from Chivatone for over ten years, maybe I'm just too used to looking at the intermediate version with the taller, less wide (better developed?) spoons. I can never establish TC plants sent from Germany, and have only had luck with seed grown material... But I keep trying On the other hand, if the plants used to establish the name H. heterdoxa do have a strong H. s. influence, would the lower altitude plants really qualify to be called H. heterdoxa?
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