kath
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Post by kath on Apr 23, 2008 21:41:17 GMT
I have a very bright windowsill that I've been told by a Heliamphora grower would be suitable for Heli's if I had a way of increasing humidity, so I was planning on getting a mini windowsill greenhouse. I found one, but it is not very tall. So my question is, first of all how deep apot do heliamphora need, and secondly how tall does H.Nutans grow? Would an 11 cm high pot be large enough?
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 24, 2008 9:30:05 GMT
Also, if someone could describe for me an 'airy' mix to use for them? I have access to sphagnum, peat, perlite, vermiculite, clay balls, pumice, and live sphagnum moss. I want a soil that will be good for heliamphora living in a covered, nearly enclosed area, with high humidity, and natural light. A soil that will keep the roots cool would be best. Any suggestions?
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Post by av8tor1 on Apr 24, 2008 16:51:54 GMT
The pitchers of H. nutans are typically 10-30cm in length and 3-7cm wide at the pitcher opening (McPherson 1983, et al.,)
Interestingly, McPherson continues on to say that the overwhelming majority of H. nutans in cultivation are actually either hybrids with H. glabra or artificial crossbreeds produced by horticulturists.
There are almost as many recipes for an airy Heli mix as there are people who grow them. Personally, I like 7p cypress bark, 3p LFS and 1 part coir fiber.
I think the issue you will encounter with a windowsill terrarium will be the temps. Most growers find they have the best results with intense light but cool temps.
Of course there are always exceptions to the rule... If you want to learn more about Heliamphora, I highly suggest "Pitcher Plants of the Americas" by Stewart McPherson, its a great book.
HTH's Av
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kby
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Post by kby on Apr 24, 2008 22:28:59 GMT
McPherson's book doesn't have much on cultivation, though. The FAQ is a better choice for that.
I've always like live sphagnum but it can be hard to keep it from getting soggy and decomposing below the surface if kept moist. I am currently using long fiber sphagnum (from your home country) and perlite topped with live. I have the pots hanging in the terrarium as well so they drain and water doesn't hold up like it would in a saucer. That way they can get watered a lot but not be soggy.
I have my oldest plant (~10 years) in a peat/perlite mixture but I find that that is usually not good when they are younger and smaller. I find that they tend to require deeper pots more than wide, but how deep will depend on the size. They don't like getting rootbound in my experience.
As av8tor said, the usual problem is having the light bright enough but not high temps. They appreciate a nighttime drop too, into at least the 20 C. Isn't this the place that's always warm?-kby
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 25, 2008 0:22:28 GMT
Here are some details as to where it'll be growing, if any one's interested?
Location: On a windowsill, behind the fridge, in the kitchen. This end of the kitchen is cooler than the other end, which houses the oven, fire, jug and a very hot windowsill.
Light: This windowsill recieves a full 14 1/2 hours of light in summer, and 12 in winter. It is bright light, the sort of white light that's reasonably cool, and hurts your eyes and makes you want to squint. This is because everything back there is white, so the light comes in and reflects off both the fridge and the windowsill.
Humidity: The mini-greenhouse which will fit on the windowsill, should raise the humidity to around 80%. It will be propped up on a pair of bricks though, to give enough headroom for the heli, and so there will be a gap 5cm high x 23cm long for the air to flow through. I'm hoping this will prevent the air inside the greenhouse from going stagnant, keep the temperatures from going to high inside, allow good air flow, and regulate the humidity.
Temperature: The temperature in the kitchen ranges from 18-26 all year round. In summer the average temperature is 24-26, in Winter it is 22-24. At night in summer there will be a very small drop of 2-5 degrees, in winter this will be the same, but it will more likely be from 4-8 degrees.
Water: Not too sure about watering, but my nana will be able to water it every day, however it wil only be able to be misted on the weekends.
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prmills
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Post by prmills on Apr 26, 2008 1:54:59 GMT
Just a note from a wanna be owner, but with the mini greenhouse, if the gap is at the bottom, the humidity will not get up that high? If a terrarium with a gap at the top gets to 80%, I imagine it would be lower in your intended setup.
It sounds like you'll have issues with the temp going too high also unless you can get a muffin fan (like a computer fan) inside blowing the air, but you'll also have to deal with the humidity issue.
Just my two cents.
-prmills
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 26, 2008 8:03:28 GMT
The humidity in the kitchen is already high enough to succesfully grow a Ventrata and Alata Nepenthes with no added extra's. They are both succesfully pitchering too. The greenhouse is just to add stable conditions, and to raise the humidity that little bit extra. I know of several growers who grow Heliamphora in this way, with no problems. Also, I'm going to grow a Nutans, one of the most heat resistant Heli's. I don't think there should be problems with having gaps in the greenhouse. Humidity depends on several factors, not just where the air holes are.
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 26, 2008 8:06:35 GMT
Is it the roots or the leaves that must be kept cool? I'm potting the plant in a ceramic pot, and it will having live sphagnum growing as the top soil.
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 26, 2008 8:22:33 GMT
QUOTE: (from wikipedia) A greenhouse is built of glass. It heats up mainly because the sun warms the ground inside it and this warms the air in the greenhouse. The air continues to heat because it is confined within the greenhouse, unlike the environment outside the greenhouse where warm air near the surface rises and mixes with cooler air aloft. This can be demonstrated by opening a small window near the roof of a greenhouse: the temperature will drop considerably.
Does this mean, if I was to put a reflective surface on the windowsill where the sun would hit, such as mylar, the 'ground' would not heat up as much, and therefore the air would not heat up as much, so the greenhouse wouldn't heat up as much?
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Post by Not a Number on Apr 26, 2008 13:53:48 GMT
Does this mean, if I was to put a reflective surface on the windowsill where the sun would hit, such as mylar, the 'ground' would not heat up as much, and therefore the air would not heat up as much, so the greenhouse wouldn't heat up as much? That's correct. Cutting down the amount of solar radiation results in lower temperatures. Shade cloth is a netting that is commonly used for this purpose. It comes in various densities depending on how much shade it provides - typically from 30% to 90%.
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 26, 2008 23:08:57 GMT
So, since mylar reflects about 90% of light, if it used to reflect away heat for me, (underneath the grennhouse, which is open bottomed, on the windowsill, does this mean the heat inside the greenhouse would only get 1/10 as strong as it would (since the other 9/10 of light that made it warm have been reflected) have been without it? So, if without the reflective, it would rise 10 degrees more inside, with the reflective, it would only rise 1 degree?
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Post by Not a Number on Apr 27, 2008 2:49:11 GMT
That's the general idea. In reality the numbers are probably going to be far less. I would imagine you need to take into consideration many factors such as relative humidity, air circulation/wind speed, the thermal characteristics (absorption, reflectiveness etc.), density and mass, ambient temperatures etc. of all the objects involved.
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 27, 2008 6:06:08 GMT
Ok. Could you help me work it out?
The mini greenhouse is going to be placed on a windowsill, which gets very bright direct light for 14 1/2 hours a day in summer, 12 hours in winter. This light can either be diffused by leaving a net curtain down, or if it's better for the plant, I can lift it up and give it full undiffused light. (Apparently bright full sunlight's supposed to be 50,000 - 100, 000 lumens? This is probably somewhere in the middle, if you take into account whatever going through glass does to them? Magnifies, reduces?)
The air temperature outside of the mini greenhouse will be about 26 degrees at most, probably closer to 22-24. (celcius)
The greenhouse will be thoroughly enclosed, except for the bottom, where a gap of 5cm high by 23cm long will be present, for air flow. The greenhouse is made out of non PVC plastic (whatever that means???) The only thing's that'll be inside the greenhouse are a white, china pot, the heli, and it's soil (top soil will be live sphagnum) oh and the mylar at the bottom.
So how do I work out how hot the inside of the greenhouse will get? How do I work out how humid it'll get?
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 27, 2008 6:31:59 GMT
Ok. Here's the reflectiveness of things being used:
If I use mylar it'll reflect 92-97% light and 85% heat. If I use aluminium foil it'll reflect 55% light If I just leave it sitting there the white painted windowsill will reflect 75-85% light, but hardly any heat.
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kath
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Post by kath on Apr 27, 2008 8:08:51 GMT
Here's the densities:
aluminium foil : 2.64 plastic that the greenhouse is made of: 1.34-1.39 pot material : 2.40 the sphagnum moss : 0.01-1.0 the vermiculite : 2.5 the perlite : 2.2-2.4 the pumice : 0.64 the zeolite : 2.10 - 2.47 the peat: 0.8
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