matti
Full Member
Posts: 216
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Post by matti on Apr 1, 2007 9:55:27 GMT
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Post by pinglover on Apr 1, 2007 13:05:35 GMT
I'm afraid I haven't a clue as to what to even suggest for you to try. Sarracenia eating grasshoppers are one foe I've not had the displeasure of dealing with.
I look forward to replies in this thread.
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Post by Steve D on Apr 1, 2007 14:55:59 GMT
We sometimes have plague-proportion grasshoppers here in eastern New Mexico, US. If I had sarracenia outside during one of those years, I would probably spray them with several doses of acephate (the generic name for Orthene). Acephate is very effective against any sucking or chewing insect such as thrips, aphids, scale and even tough grasshoppers. I have killed probably thousands of grasshoppers with acephate sprayed on various plants (mainly garden plants and grapes, but I also use it on my Venus Flytraps and (greenhouse grown) sarracenia). It is long lasting (6 weeks or more) and is systemic, making the entire plant poisonous to insects that attempt to eat it or suck its juices. The only plant in my own experience that seems to dislike being sprayed with acephate is Drosera, especially Drosera adelae which is particularly sensitive to this chemical. I have never killed a plant with acephate, and no other plant even seems to react at all to it, but I do tend to avoid using it on Drosera unless I really feel a strong need. best wishes, Steve
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Post by pinglover on Apr 1, 2007 16:16:23 GMT
I never thought of Orthene. That's a really great systemic. One question for Steve D- Based on your personal experiences, how much of the plants do the grasshoppers get to gorge on before they drop over dead? Time frame I guess would be what I am asking about.
Back outside to play in the dirt!
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Post by Steve D on Apr 1, 2007 17:16:19 GMT
I never thought of Orthene. That's a really great systemic. One question for Steve D- Based on your personal experiences, how much of the plants do the grasshoppers get to gorge on before they drop over dead? Time frame I guess would be what I am asking about. Back outside to play in the dirt! Yeah, that's a very good and astute question. I guess it wouldn't matter that the poison killed the pest if the pest killed the plant first. ;D Although grasshoppers are much more voracious--or able to do much more damage more quickly as a group--than other pests such as aphids or scale, they do succumb fairly quickly to acephate (Orthene). My philosophy, if I see that there seem to be many baby grasshoppers hatching this year (sometimes it really is like a "swarm of locusts" plague here in eastern New Mexico, depending on the year, the moisture, and the stars (by which I mean that there are undoubtedly factors I'm unaware of)), is to spray everything that I can think of that they might want to eat, before they actually decide to feast on something. That way, the plants have already had enough time to distribute the poison in their entire system and become deadly to the pests. It's a slightly delayed reaction, so sometimes it seems somewhat futile to spray orthene after the grasshoppers descend upon some group of plants. Several years ago for some reason the grasshoppers, which were numerous by that time, decided all at once to eat our grape vines. The devastation after just one day was amazing, so I sprayed with Orthene. Over the next several days I noticed hundreds of grasshoppers, dead and dying with twitching legs on the ground around the grapes, but the grapes had already been eaten clean of all their leaves. It was a pitiful sight. However, after the grasshoppers were killed, the grape produced more leaves. Of course there were plenty more grasshoppers around, but this time the leaves were poisoned to begin with (and sprayed periodically with acephate to make sure!) So my comment or advice is to spray acephate early when you are able to anticipate rather than merely observe a problem. However, even after the problem becomes obvious, acephate is fairly quick as a systemic. It kills aphid and scale infestations within a few days (2-4 days in my experience). Happy murdering! Steve
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Post by pinglover on Apr 2, 2007 2:02:22 GMT
Have you ever purchased wettable Orthene and used it as a dip/drench? www.growersupply.com/orthene.htmlI've gotten zinged with a few hitchhikers from nurseries in the past. Didn't make me a happy camper but a man who I respect a lot, bailed me out. He over nighted me a starter supply which was enough to dip 300 pots. That bought me time to purchase enough product to re-treat my plants as well as to have a decent stash in the event I was sent "extras" again. Now mind you, I wasn't dealing with grasshoppers. They have ratzappers on the market, don't they have a grasshopperzapper yet ;)
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Post by Steve D on Apr 2, 2007 2:20:11 GMT
No, I have only bought the Orthene SP (soluble powder, completely water soluble for absorption into the plant). The supply I bought lasts just about forever, so I haven't had a need to buy any other kind and I'm very happy with the effectiveness of the Orthene (acephate, by various brand names). I have the Orthene 75SP but I have seen a stronger 95SP (95% active ingredient, I'm guessing) on the market as well (can't remember where right away, but I'm guessing a Clusty.com or Google.com search would find it). Regarding unwanted "hitchikers" on plants received from growers, it has happened to me too. That's why I spray all my stock 2 or 3 times (every other day or so) before I deliver or ship any plants, just in case there are some hidden scale or aphids that have escaped my scrutiny. I rarely have had any insect pest problems other than scale or aphids on my Venus Flytraps and other plants. Grasshoppers are confined to outdoors and my plants are grown in a greenhouse. We have almost no slugs or snails in the entire area because it is so dry. We do have occasional thrip or whitefly outbreaks, but they are easily eliminated or controlled with acephate. :) Steve
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Post by pinglover on Apr 2, 2007 4:30:21 GMT
I believe Orthene SP is the wettable powder. You're using it as a spray and I'm using it as a drench.
I quarantine every plant I get these days. I was out of my mind treating all those plants for mealies and our cats were batting around ant baits for months. When you step on those little boogers in your bare feet it's about the equivalent of stepping on a little green army man or a lego. Ouch.
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Post by Steve D on Apr 2, 2007 10:40:29 GMT
I believe Orthene SP is the wettable powder. You're using it as a spray and I'm using it as a drench. (...) I see. I keep forgetting the capital letter designations of the various formulations for different purposes of Orthene/acephate. I transferred the entire contents of the original container to a big glass jar a few years ago, so I don't have the original package to refer to, although now I'm thinking it said "Orthene 75 WSP" instead of "Orthene 75 SP." I think the WSP stood for "water soluble powder" (and it is that--completely water soluble), and WP stood for "wettable powder" which means orthene that is bound to another ingredient (the "powder") intended for surface treatment of plants rather than systemic treatment, if I'm correct. The "wettable" in "wettable powder" refers to the fact that a surfactant has been added (I believe) in order to easily disperse the powder in a water solution for spraying, but the Orthene in the "wettable powder" formulation stays (mostly) in the finely pulverized powder that ends up on the surface of apples or other fruits or vegetables to kill bugs that might chew on those plants/fruits without poisoning the entire fruit/plant. At least that is my understanding (if I got it right! ;-) from the retired microbiologist in whose home I live, and who used to be the county pesticide consultant for the peanut farmers in this region of New Mexico US. However, all the various designations are certainly confusing to me. Steve
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Post by Steve D on Apr 2, 2007 15:21:04 GMT
This is a follow-up to my post above-- I didn't trust my memory about this subject (pesticides labeled as "soluble powder" or "water soluble powder" and contrasted with "wettable powder") and I didn't want to give bad information, so I asked the retired professor I mentioned above about this subject again this morning and did some additional research on the Web. To the best of my ability to determine right now, it seems that "SP" or "WSP" both mean soluble powder or water-soluble powder, in which the pesticide is completely dissolved into the solution (for plant absorption and systemic use), while "WP" usually stands for "wettable powder," as I mentioned above, in which the poisonous chemical exists within an inert ingredient (like kaolin clay), which is then ground into a powder. The powder (and the poison within) in this case both stay (for the most part) on the surface of the plant that is sprayed (after the water used to spray the powder evaporates), to kill bugs that may travel the surface of the plant and chew, but won't typically kill pests that are already inside the plant or are sucking the plant's juices below the surface, such as aphids and scale. The following URL contains a glossary and brief description of these and other (confusing) terms: www.pestmanagement.co.uk/lib/glossary/glossary_w.shtmlOne of the benefits of the WP or wettable-powder form is that it can readily be washed off from plants or fruits intended for human consumption. However, the SP or WSP (water soluble) formulations are longer lasting and kill a wider range of insects in plants that are not intended for human consumption because the poison becomes systemic (distributed within the plant) and is long lasting (is not washed off by rain or irrigation after it is absorbed). Regarding the Orthene/acephate, what I have been using for years is the 75% active ingredient water soluble powder, which is available (theoretically at least; it seems kind of hard to find on the Internet right now) as "Acephate 75 SP" and "Acephate 75 WSP." There is also a 90% active ingredient version that is available as "Acephate 90 WSP" and "Acephate 90% SP." Orthene / acephate works so well for such a broad range of insects that I have rarely used any other insecticide myself, although I'm sure there are others that are very effective and may (or may not) be regarded as friendlier to humans and the environment. They're all nasty stuff so I usually make sure to wash myself well after spraying Orthene / acephate. Whew! I'm sorry to be so long-winded (and possibly confusing). Steve
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Post by sunbelle on Apr 3, 2007 15:39:52 GMT
Hi Everyone, We have found that Orthene SP used as a spray, when combined with bright sunlight, can burn the edges of the lids on Sarracenia. We use Orthene SP wettable powder (more like granules) one teaspoon per one and a half gallons on water as a soil drench. Talstar One is used as a spray on all of our plants (Sarrs, Neps, VFT's, orchids) and definitely has eliminated chewers (like big locusts) from even taking one chomp. As Steve D stated, Orthene is nasty stuff. Treat it like it's radioactive!
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Post by Steve D on Apr 3, 2007 18:02:10 GMT
Hi Everyone, We have found that Orthene SP used as a spray, when combined with bright sunlight, can burn the edges of the lids on Sarracenia. (...) Talstar One is used as a spray on all of our plants (Sarrs, Neps, VFT's, orchids) and definitely has eliminated chewers (like big locusts) from even taking one chomp. Thanks Sunbelle for the warning about Orthene/acephate and for the recommdation for Talstar One. It looks like Bifen I/T has the same active ingredient (bifenthrin), in the same concentration (7.9%) as Talstar One, at a cheaper price, so it might be a good substitute: Talstar One: www.domyownpestcontrol.com/talstar-one-p-97.htmlBifen I/T: www.domyownpestcontrol.com/bifen-it-p-226.htmlI wonder how Drosera, especially Drosera adelae which reacts so strongly against Orthene/acephate, would tolerate Talstar One or Bifen I/T-- -Steve
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Post by pinglover on Apr 4, 2007 2:48:38 GMT
You try it and let me know. I'm chicken.
I'm sort of with Steve D in that Orthene has served me so well, I haven't broadened my horizons. I'm not familiar with Talstar One. What have you used it for specifically other than grasshoppers... which happen to be one of the few things that don't plague me here.
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Post by sunbelle on Apr 4, 2007 13:10:53 GMT
Talstar One was recommended by our Ag agent here in Florida. Mainly it used in a nursery environment for the control of fire ants. We have never had fire ants, but I use it at the dilution recommended for controlling them. Fire ants are a big problem in SE USA, but we have yet to see one on our property. Talstar is also friendlier to reptiles birds and mammals, but still toxic to fish and amphibians. We use it to control everything from whitefly to thrips and mealybugs, and when combined with Orthene pot drenches, pest control is easy.
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Post by pinglover on Apr 6, 2007 2:30:26 GMT
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