I feel this forum needs a classified section. Also, I feel this part of the terms needs to be expanded upon:
" 6) Commercial advertising or selling may be allowed in the Forum. If you are interested in advertising or selling, contact the Forum owner at email@example.com prior to posting. Personal 'auction type' sales are not allowed. "
there should be a firm decision regarding this, and if so, it should be defined what constitutes a commercial sale. ive been accused of being a commercial grower by one or 2 ignorant people who refuse to accept that my sales have not been for profit, and have helped fund several important CP related causes that others have benefitted from.
finally, I see Bob is the forum owner. Is this not the ICPS forum? If so, wouldn't that make the ICPS the owner? I'd like to know whether I'm contributing to someone's personal forum or one belonging to a society. Matt
Last Edit: Mar 12, 2007 19:16:52 GMT by sundewmatt
I think the issue on sales will be considered carefully before it can be answered, partly because we have to make sure there are no infringements upon the ICPS's nonprofit status. There are a few somewhat obscure rules that must be followed.
However, Matt, I'm happy to comment on your concern about the ownership of this forum. Bob's name is all over it because, like any ICPS activity, it is member-driven. Bob is doing this because he thinks it was a good idea, and got official clearance blah blah blah. But it is an ICPS thing. Otherwise, that VFT graphic wouldn't be at the top-left of your screen.
Thanks for the answers, Barry. When I was on the main page a moment ago, there were not only commercial ads for companies selling CP in the rotating Google ads, but there was also a link to VFT sales on eBay. I'm not sure if this would be considered a "Personal 'auction type' sale" but it seems to me like it is. Plus there's no guarantee that plants found on eBay aren't illegally collected. I suspect a lot of them are. Also, I find it important to point out that member's sale/trade/wanted ads were a very important part of CPN early on. It seems silly to me to leave out classified ads in this forum. Matt
As an experiment to gage interest, we set this forum up as a free ProBoards ad-supported Forum. The ads you see are generated by ProBoards as a condition of this free option. We are contemplating a paid ad-free option but have not thoroughly explored the ultimate costs yet. Since this is our first day of operation there will be a few rough edges before we settle into a full stable operational mode. Patience.
Personally, I can't see the the problem with adverts. You don't have to read them and they would provide an income with which to run the forum. However, some folk just don't have a very high tolerance to them. I can understand this, my phone is exdirectory because I just couldn't stand salesmen ringing me up.
The extra money to help support the forums was nice. Unfortunately, it is my understanding there was no means by which to control which ads were displayed with any reliability. Some ads were offensive while other ads sent out mixed signals.
There is a hyperlink at the top of the board that states "Donate to the ICPS to keep this forum ad-free" for anyone in a position to help out. If anyone is in a position to contribute, it would be really great because when the ads were removed... there went the little bit of money that was helping to offset the costs of the forums.
The tendency of man's nature to good is like the tendency of water to flow downwards. -Mencius
Perhaps we can have a separate classifieds page for ads, where those of us who wish to look into commercial availabilities of these plants and other things, (sphagnum, peat, etc.) as well as offer swaps and want lists. ... Just a thought.
... not suffering from insanity, but rather enjoying it actually!
Aidan is correct. We have discussed such options and so far have concluded that there are many other CP forums that support commercial sales, trades, swaps, wants, etc. It is best to conduct such activities from a forum that is located in your country. ICPS does not want to condone trades across boundaries that may be illegal without proper paperwork.
I was thinking this morning that a certain number of people who join the ICPS forum, especially those whose who are fairly new to the interest in and growing of carnivorous plants, as well as more experienced growers who may be interested in a particular type of plant, might appreciate a forum category called "Sources for Carnivorous Plants" or something like that, and that in addition to listing well-established commercial sources, those hobbyists who grow plants and sometimes offer self-propagated plants, and who are also members of ICPS or the ICPS forum, might be able to list themselves in that category or list whatever they might currently have on hand for trade or sale.
Steve, that is a good idea. However, ICPS is an international society and forum. We have members from all over the world. Because of this and because we do not want to encourage international trading without proper paperwork, listing of sources, either of commercial or amateur growers, would have to be country specific. That is why we decided to suggest that ICPS Forum members also join a local forum which encourages trading listed at icps.proboards.com/thread/1156/carnivorous-plant-forums or local CP societies listed at icps.proboards.com/thread/1155/worldwide-directory-cp-societies
Steve, that is a good idea. However, ICPS is an international society and forum. We have members from all over the world. Because of this and because we do not want to encourage international trading without proper paperwork, listing of sources, either of commercial or amateur growers, would have to be country specific.
I see. Thank you for including such a list in the ICPS forum. The only kind of sad issue I see with that is that ICPS members who happen to have extra plants for trade or sale, such as myself (this is not an ad! ), might spend more time at other forums or groups that have a mechanism in place to allow for such trade or sale, and their presence here at the ICPS forum might (or may not) be diminished (although my own few and non-technical contributions to the discussion here at the forum would probably not be missed if that were to happen in my case).
A decision and change has been made so that as of April 11, 2007, the ICPS Forum is now Ad-Free. The ICPS Forum is managed by the ICPS Board of Directors and is financially supported exclusively by ICPS.
--although I would comment that while the ICPS Forum is now "financially supported exclusively by the ICPS," that statement implies that it is supported at least in part by the members of the ICPS through our membership dues and donations, right? However, I know it could be argued that member dues and contributions support the many and varied worthy activities and goals of the ICPS--which may not include a means to mention or list plants one may have for trade or sale.
The comments above are just something else to consider, not necessarily good argument; I don't mind contributing to a discussion, but I don't wish to generate controversy. This forum is a valuable resource and your donation and investment of time and effort into the forum is very generous. In addition, you're just a darn likeable guy judging from your postings here and elsewhere, your contributions to the CP community such as your CP Photo Finder and your involvement with this forum, and the little personal correspondence I have had with you in the past.
I do see your point, and thank you for your time and graciousness in explaining it. Best wishes,