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Post by phissionkorps on Dec 9, 2007 9:08:29 GMT
You can't apply this to every possible case, because, as vraev pointed out:
Proper usage of penicillin resulted in bacteria resistant to it, proper usage of DDT resulted in insects resistant to it (among other things), etc, etc. There will always be the random mutant or two or more that can just deal with what is being thrown at them, and will eventually proliferate. There are very few methods anyone can say will work 100% of the time, save burning and soaking in bleach, but that would also kill a plant.
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Post by pinglover on Dec 9, 2007 10:11:42 GMT
The argentii I have was purchased from Cascade. It came to me mite free and I am happy to report it is still mite free.
I gave mine a nice home and it rewarded me with nice black leaves. The appeal for me is definitely its compact form and verrrrrrrrry slow growth habit. It gets old giving away one Nepenthes after the next because they get too big for the areas in which I can grow them and I can't whack them all back to stimulate basal growth to keep them fuller and compact to fit the space I do have for them.
Like to beat your head on the wall and play the game of will it do something this month or not, well then this is the Nep for you!
My experience with argentii would parallel that of phissionkorps but my plant is now righting itself and doing well enough 8 months later. I like it, absolutely no risk of it outgrowing its space anytime soon ;D
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vraev
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Post by vraev on Dec 9, 2007 18:22:11 GMT
yeah lol! I guess thats just what I need.... a nep that will make me going... "WHAT THE HELL I AM DOING WRONG??" lol! But yeah...I actually love neps that dont' vine...and argentii fits the bill perfectly. I always wanted the plant..... and I guess I am going for it... just becos I need to try it at least once.  yeah! its a real small plant..and probably as slow as the lowii and rajah...but well.... HEY! welcome to the game.....my rajah will join it in sticking like a statue for 2 months before u notice a new leaf. lol! Thanks for the advice pinglover. DO u have a pic of your plant.... is cascade's shipped plant as beautiful as their picture??  |
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Post by pinglover on Dec 9, 2007 19:27:36 GMT
That's the spirit! Nothing better than a positive attitude!
The plant shipped to me was as healthy as the one photographed but about half the size with no pitchers. I suspect you will receive one about the same size.
If you want to know what mine looks like; remove the pitchers from the plant photographed, add two half yellow/half black leaves, and add one new growth green leaf at the top. There ya go, that's what my plant looks like 8 months later. I will say one thing, the plant came to me in a heck of a lot better condition than its current state. I did purchase an aristolochioides from him at the same time and it seems much happier and might be a plant you should consider because it too is a slow grower and smaller plant.
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vraev
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Post by vraev on Dec 9, 2007 21:15:43 GMT
well....I am not getting it from cascade but from michael catliani. I want aristolocoides soo bad, ..but they are too expensive for me. Instead the smallest argentii is like 16$ which is a pretty decent price to try out this plant. Yes! I know its a heck of a lot smaller than cascade's plant,...but well...hey atleast its the species.  The interesting thing is that cascade's deescription of this plant say its an easy plant to grow whereas I am hearing soo much contradictory experiences from many growers. |
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Post by pinglover on Dec 9, 2007 21:51:47 GMT
Although the plants I bought were very healthy from Cascade, I must admit I would have bought from Michael had I known he was selling them again. Bummer he didn't mention selling Neps again to me earlier this year. Based on my personal experiences, he knows more about Nepenthes than I will ever know in my entire life and he's pretty darn good with greenhouse construction and placement of necessities such as relays, heaters, exhausts, intakes, swamp coolers, and floor drains and might as well toss everything else one might need for a greenhouse in too. I owe him a lot. He talked me through every last detail of my new greenhouse and all I had to do was pass the information on to all the tradesmen!
That being said, maybe we should go and track him down and find out what he thinks we could do better to avoid the black leaf syndrome associated with these little pretties. I like my plant very much. Would prefer it continued on its rebound path though if at all possible.
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vraev
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Post by vraev on Dec 9, 2007 22:25:44 GMT
yeah! We have been waiting for Michael's reply. I totally agree, I use his guide to grow all my plants. So far everything's ok...and those that aren't its just becos of my low light condtions. I don't have a greenhouse, but well...I will definately contact him once I get one. Sure, please let me know if u can get in touch with him. I think he is taking a break for the weekend. I will mail him tomorrow night as I think I bugged him enough already. |
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Post by Michael Catalani on Dec 10, 2007 2:39:35 GMT
I have a quick moment, so i'll try to hit on some highlights of N. argentii.
The plant usually exhibits a growth stall form of transplant shock. For about 4 weeks, the plant sits there and does absolutely nothing. I tend to lose about half of the pitchers and no leaves right after transplanting. For about 4 weeks after transplanting, the plant has all the vigor and appearance of a fake plastic plant. The plant doesnt change its appearance at all. Usually no leaves are lost and no additional growth is detected, which could make you think the thing is fake. Actually, a fake plastic plant may grow faster than N. argentii during this time right after transplanting.
After about 4 weeks, the plant begins picking up steam. An N. gracilis it is not nor will it ever be. It is one of the slowest growers I know of.
I've classified the plant as an intermediate highlander, meaning it seems to need warm toasty days in the upper 80'sF, and a drop into 60'sF at night. It will grow as a highlander, which basically means temps in the lower 80'sF during the day and maybe slightly cooler nights, but it will grow slower, as hard as it is to believe that it could actually grow slower.
I am about to take a group of plants and do something I've never attempted, which is growing them in a lowland setup. This may be a very temporary thing. Basically, I'm trying to see if I can detect an immediate growth speed increase. If I detect no difference, then they are coming out. If they grow faster, then I will try to determine the optimal night time drop and go from there. I really havent put this much effort into nailing down an exact range of temps for a species before, but N. argentii is slow enough that any little bit of help could provide a significant boost.
One thing to notice from plants that you receive is the color of the leaves, and to some degree the pitchers. Leaves that appear light green in color, and pitchers that seem to lack much of any coloration have probably been grown in extremely high constant humidity and lower light levels. If you take a plant thats been growing like this and place it into more of a typical growing environment that has some humidity swings and higher light then you will smack the plant with an incredible double whammy. It will leaf burn from the light, and suffer from low humidity burns along the margins of the leaves, which will turn them black. Whats worse is that this plant is so slow that it may have a very hard time growing out of such a terrible condition. So if you receive a plant that appears to have been grown in a low light and very high humidity condition, take some time to acclimate it to humidity swings, and after that, to gradually higher light.
If the plant appears to grow, but refuses to pitcher, then I would suggest making sure that the humidity doesnt drop too low, especially during the warmest parts of the day. Developing pitchers like a lot of humidity, and the tendrils will usually enter the soil area and the pop back up some distance away and develop a pitcher. The intermediate to upper pitchers can develop long tendrils to drop over the side of a pot for practically the length of the pot. Setting the pot on a bed of moist long fiber sphagnum will help the tendril tip to not burn as it begins to drop. If it burns due to a lack of humidity, it will abort. This is where the bed of long fiber sphagnum really helps.
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vraev
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Post by vraev on Dec 10, 2007 2:47:08 GMT
holy crap....this plant seems to me a lot more finicky than I even ever imagined. lol! holy!!! lol! Michael.... this might sound funny...but lol! which one is faster?? argentii or villosa?? lol! damn! that is actually scary. Please tell me that you are growing yours under not those intense humidity conditions....  . You are scaring me straight. lol |
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Post by Michael Catalani on Dec 10, 2007 5:05:03 GMT
Please tell me that you are growing yours under not those intense humidity conditions.... My highland chambers experience a large swing in humidity. Here's a breakdown of the humidity throughout a one-day operating cycle: During the day when the chambers are at their normal operating temperature of 83F, the humidity is about 70%. At about 7pm local time, the chambers begin their initial cooling phase. During this time, the humidity can drop to 45%, and the temperature will hang at about 68F for about 4 hours as the built up heat in the soil is released. After most of the heat is released, the temperature will quickly drop, and as soon as it hits 55F, the cooling phase is terminated. The temperature will then bounce back to about 62F and then very gradually drop to about 58F by the early morning. During this time, the humidity can rise to 85%. At 6am, the lights turn on, and the chambers begin to heat up. This will cause the humidity to drop to about 60%. Once the operating temp of 83F is reached, which is normally around 10am, the humidity will rise and maintain at about 70%. |
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vraev
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Post by vraev on Dec 10, 2007 5:11:52 GMT
wow...thats a perfect highland condition right there. wicked! I guess your plants can then be called greenhouse hardened. The thing is being in canada...things mostly are on the cooler side as I grow things inside. winter: max day: 75F min day: 70F max humidity day: 80% slowly drops to around 60% after like 6 hrs when I spray the plants to get it back up. Night max: 65F night min: 59-60F humidity: 70 - 80 ----Summer--- whole new ball game. However, I still have to try growing plants in my house basement in summer. things can get blistering hot. Days go to 90F. However in a un-airconditioned place where i stayed for in the summer, it was like max 86F - 90F that my enclousure ever gets to. cheers, V |
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Post by phissionkorps on Dec 10, 2007 5:28:53 GMT
I did that for a couple months. See my first post in this thread for results lol.
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Post by Michael Catalani on Dec 10, 2007 18:28:54 GMT
I did that for a couple months. See my first post in this thread for results lol. lol, yea. Warmer all around temperatures, which mites seem to love, coupled with a plant that may be night heat stressed is usually not a good combo, unless you just love that beautiful webbing around the plant. Which is why I'm gnona do this on a temporary 2-4week basis. I'm wanting to see if the plants will speed up with hotter day temps. They will ultimately have to be cooled down at night or they will start becoming stressed. But its the only way in the short term I can determine if hotter day temps are beneficial. This might be a plant that loves 95F day temps and 60F night temps, in which case I guess I'll be modifying one of the chambers. But the plant is so slow as it is that I'm gonna try to find some combo of day and night temps that seem to work better. |
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Post by RL7836 on Dec 11, 2007 21:28:01 GMT
BTW Aidan.... I lost all the seed I bought from ya. Syble got them at her place..she sent them out... I haven't recieved it yet. Been two weeks. I guess it got lost in the mail. 2 weeks is a while but not enough to give up hope. Is this 2 weeks from a domestic go-between or from Aidan? Internationally - 2 wks is nothing to hardly be concerned with.... |
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vraev
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Post by vraev on Dec 12, 2007 2:50:46 GMT
no...this is two weeks locally. The seed was recieved by a member on my local board who did the order and then sent out the seeds to everyone. Everyone else receieved theirs in like 5 days. This was sometime on November 20'th.
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yeah! its a real small plant..and probably as slow as the lowii and rajah...but well.... HEY! welcome to the game.....my rajah will join it in sticking like a statue for 2 months before u notice a new leaf. lol!
. You are scaring me straight. 
