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Post by sanderfokkes on May 28, 2015 18:00:21 GMT
Hey everyone,
Im new to the forum and will introduce myself there as well.
I need some help since i cant seem to find the question. I got a h. heterodoxa x ionasii which is flowering (5 flowerbulbs) from which the first flower is a few days from opening. Now i managed to get my hands on some fresh pollen of a nutans.
Is it possible to pollinate the heterodoxa x ionasii with nutans pollen? And for that matter, is it possible to cross polinate just any heli? And how would this heli be called?
If i manage to succeed ill make a tutorial, i already filmed the pollen extraction (close up), and flower growth (time-lapse).
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Post by tanukimo on May 30, 2015 1:47:57 GMT
I don't see why it wouldn't work. At the very least it should be worth a try. It would be called Heliamphora x [nutans x (heterodoxa x ionasii)].
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Post by hcarlton on May 30, 2015 5:24:14 GMT
Complex hybrids with Heliamphora are possible, but you'll have to time it right, as the anthers ripen after the stigmas are no longer receptive, so any flower that's reached the second stage is too late. Pollinate as soon as the flower opens fully. And actually the correct name would be H. (heterodoxa x ionasii) x nutans, as the female (seed or pod) parent will always come first. No need to complicate the parentheses more than necessary either...
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Post by sanderfokkes on May 31, 2015 12:37:54 GMT
Thanks for the answers guys.
The flower opened somewhere yesterday (really tight opening), so I grabbed the pollen from the fridge and transfered the pollen to the stigma. Will repeat this process every 2 hours today.
The anthlers are realy light colour with a part of red. Have made some closeup pics and will make one every 2h or so to confirm pollination.
I have looked online but couldnt find this hybrid if pollination is successfull, would I need to register this hybrid?
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Post by sanderfokkes on Jun 1, 2015 17:25:36 GMT
So time for an update, i tried to pollinate it yesterday (about 4 times, 2h intervals) and this morning before work and just came home from work and noticed the stigma getting an orange hint, is this a sign of successful pollination? Before: (u can clearly see the pollen on the stigma here) today (after polination yesterday and this morning)
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Post by hcarlton on Jun 1, 2015 19:20:24 GMT
It will likely be a week or two before you notice any serious changes. And if by "registering" the hybrid you mean naming one of the seedlings as a cultivar, yes. Otherwise there is no Latin naming of artificial hybrids officially anymore, or anything else to be done. It's a hybrid, its name exists as it does.
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Post by sanderfokkes on Jun 2, 2015 16:25:34 GMT
Some of todays pics: Cant wait for it to start swelling.
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Post by av8tor1 on Jun 2, 2015 21:27:45 GMT
sand, very nice... enjoy, its an interesting process to observe. From start to finish expect it to take about 65-70 days if successful. As far as I know you can cross pollinate any Heliamphora, I have several new hybrids I've created. I have one that is beautiful and went from seed to flowering adult in under four years! I plan on making it a registered cultivar at some point. However, sometimes what you think will be an awesome cross turns out to be a disappointment. I had also started a photo journal of the process over on terraforums for future use on my Heli webpage. Heli pollinationAv
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Post by sanderfokkes on Jun 3, 2015 15:50:33 GMT
Hey av,
Thanks for the link, pics are so helpful if you are a first time pollinator.
But can anyone register the new cross as cultivar or only the pollinator (in case I share the seeds)?
And is there any tutorial on growing heli from seed that you are aware of?
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Post by av8tor1 on Jun 3, 2015 18:33:17 GMT
Just speaking from my own experience.
You will find that the offspring of your cross will vary. So if you distribute the seed to friends, what your friend ends up with may look different that what you end up with. There will be similarities but there will be differences too. It's the "special" one from the group that you would make a cultivar if that is your goal.
In my last hybrid there was one that stood out from the crowd. It has beautiful form, color and a very fast grower.
Anyone can register a cultivar as far as I know. There is a FAQ about it on ICPS or Barry's website.. I cant remember which, but should be easy enough to find with a little googling.
I don't have a tutorial on how to grow heli from seed per say, but there are several long threads on the subject on terraforums.
(I will eventually add one to my webpage, but its going to take me a while, too many irons in the fire already)
They are not hard, but a lot depends on the species/hybrids. Some grow and mature fast while others grow at a snails pace under the exact same conditions. Genetics plays a major role. I soak the seed in a trich mix then sow on my normal Heli substrate mix.
Germination timeline is also very species/hyrid specific. Many will easily sprout in under 21 days... while some others can just sit there for a month or more.
hope this helps
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Post by av8tor1 on Jun 3, 2015 18:39:28 GMT
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Post by sanderfokkes on Jun 4, 2015 19:58:12 GMT
Thanks for the links, the seedlings look stunning. These are yesterdays pics, can you confirm its successfully pollinated or does it take a while before you can get a full conformation? I might try to grow all the seeds myself (for experience) or give some of them away on 1 condition, if they are way different then my own grown i'd like a clone of it once its matures.
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Post by av8tor1 on Jun 4, 2015 21:00:15 GMT
The stigma looks dry and brown but that only indicates it's probably no longer receptive. Still too early, it will need another couple weeks to say without a doubt yes or no. You can make some assumptions early on, but swelling of the ovary is the only sure indicator that I know of.
I usually ask the same thing, if there is a special one... please send me back a division.
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Post by av8tor1 on Jun 4, 2015 21:15:36 GMT
Here are two that were given to a friend of mine and turned out really special IMHO Both will be named cultivars one day I hope (both are different crosses and stood out from their siblings) (butchie jr is her names for them, LOL) butchie jr. #3 (my favorite so far) butchie jr. #2 Av
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Post by sanderfokkes on Jun 5, 2015 7:14:39 GMT
Av,
The stigma was bright green, and a day after my pollination attempt it started turning brownish already so I have high hopes.
Now its just a waiting game anthler wise, I read that it takes about 6 days for the anthlers to ripen after the flower opens.
The second flower will prob open tomorrow while I'm away for 2 days, so hope for the best.
BTW, amazing helis!
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