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Post by Not a Number on Dec 30, 2007 15:17:37 GMT
Those two links are both to California Polytechnic State University. If you go back to the SuperThrive website, I believe you will find they referenced California Polytechnic College. I suspect we're dealing with two different schools here but maybe not. The California State Univeristy system used to be the California State Colleges system. California Polytechnic used to be called a college. The change over happened I'm guessing in the 80's as they were still called Colleges when I applied to them in the 70's.
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Post by pinglover on Dec 30, 2007 15:37:27 GMT
That makes sense. So if the change over occurred in the 80's, appears these testimonials are rather dated. Me thinks me knows why they haven't updated their site much other than to increase the price of the product.
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Post by Steve D on Dec 31, 2007 3:02:31 GMT
In 1996 Barry Rice wrote the following to the CP email list:OK, OK, I've seen the words Superthrive a billion times so I am finally a little curious.
Has ANYONE in this group performed a careful set of experiments to see if this stuff REALLY does anything? For example...
At least two pots of the SAME CLONE of a plant must be given a year or so to become accustomed to their conditions. Then the pots are separated into two groups---the control group is given normal culture, and the other is given the superthrive. They must be kept in separate trays. Ideally the locations of the trays should be rotated each week in case one tray occupies some better spot in the greenhouse. Then at the end of a year, the plants can be assessed and the effects of Superthrive evaluated. Ideally, the person that does this final evaluation should be an experienced CPer, but not the same one who applied the Superthrive (trying to make this a blind test). Except for this last step, this is exactly what I did to prove to myself that a weekly foliar application of Miracid makes tuberous Drosera very happy.
Has anyone done this? I am still in the camp that thinks Superthrive is snake-oil (colloquial for semi-mystical nonsense to fool people). I would like to be convinced.
Barry I wonder if anyone has ever done this. I remain curious, but not very hopeful after my own experience using Superthrive. A more rigorous side-by-side test for a year or so would benefit the CP and plant-growing community though, so I'm inclined to think about doing such an experiment myself sometime. Judging from other anecdotal observations on the 'net, it looks like a lot of people think that--like PingLover said--that it is mostly or completely composed of a rooting hormone and vitamin B-something-or-other.
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Post by Aidan on Dec 31, 2007 3:26:43 GMT
...and vitamin B-something-or-other. All you need do is smell the stuff to comfirm that! ;D It smells exactly the same as this stuff: www.marmite.co.uk/love/history/birth-of-marmite.htmlSome people eat it, but I suspect others actually dilute it, bottle it and sell it as Superthrive.
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wadave
Full Member
He don't know me vewy well do he?
Posts: 283
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Post by wadave on Dec 31, 2007 4:16:19 GMT
The guy who teaches me bonsai is also a qualified horticulturalist, I've asked him about his thoughts on superthrive and this is the gist of what he told me.
Superthrive was developed in Australia and then sold to an American company who successfully marketed the stuff. Essentially it is full or root hormones and other trace elements that act as a tonic much the same as seaweed extract.
This product is not intended as a fertiliser and does not do much more than increase the health of a plants root system, but as a result of a stronger root system the plant naturally grows better/ stronger/ faster if you like. The more abundant fine feeder roots a plant has the better it is able to draw nutrients etc from the soil.
As most cp's have weak or underdeveloped roots (ie they don't have fine feeder roots) due to their natural habitat of low to no real nutrients, and hence their dependence on catching insects, superthrive will only act to help support new root growth after transplant shock. It has been argued that the main function of a cp's root system is simply to act as an anchor to keep the plant upright and to absorb water with very little ability to absorb nutrients as generally there are none to be found in the soil.
Therefore don't expect miracle growth rates or abundant foliage or flower production after treating your cp's with superthrive. The only thing I expect from treating my transplanted cp's with superthrive is to minimise transplant shock, support new root developement and thus improve the recovery rate.
If anyone was to do experiements they should be looking at recovery rates after transplanting and nothing else.
I use the stuff on my bonsai after root pruning where up to half of the plants roots are removed. It works wonders and it shows with plentiful new shoots on the trees branches. This only occurs when the roots are doing the same underground, ie the roots are producing new growing tips too. It makes sense that cp's roots would do the same but unless there is direct evidence we can never be sure.
Dave.
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Post by Brian Barnes on Dec 31, 2007 16:09:27 GMT
To me, Superthrive smells just like Geritol, a popular vitamin/ iron-supplement here in the US. Hmmm....maybe i should drink some and try to root Nepenthes cuttings in my mouth maybe, with an added boost of energy as well? ;D Just kidding! Bri.
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Post by pinglover on Dec 31, 2007 16:11:49 GMT
Regarding SuperThrive and trees, I offer the following: In the spring of 2002, maybe it was 2003, I ordered over 1000 bareroot dormant woodies for my property. I bought hundreds of dollars of SuperThrive without ever researching the product because... two of my four suppliers of bareroots were selling the product and swore by it. I SuperThrived beyond your wildest dreams to strengthen the root systems of my bareroots. We were hit with a horrible drought that year. I "religiously" SuperThrived every last bareroot walking out buckets of precious miracle drop laden SuperThrive water to plants out of hose range. When all was said and done, it didn't matter which trees and shrubs had been SuperThrived during that drought because they all had been, what mattered was which bareroots were within hose range and were able to be soaked as opposed to receiving the status quo 2.5 gallons per week of water. I have no idea why I used it on my Sarracenia other than that I was told it worked on sarracenias but not on trees and shrubs and that I needed it to reduce transplant shock. Should have listened to my little voice back then. Literally took running out of the product to figure it out. I'm not proud, I got sucked into the SuperThrive cult and was the ultimate devotee. I SuperThrived everything! Surprised I didn't slip a few drops in my kids' OJ every morning. Here's another product out there for plants and people too that enjoys a cult like following- Dragon's Blood. Anyone out there using that? www.sangrededrago.net/www.dragonsblood.com/sangre_de_drago.htmwww.shopgonewild.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8
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Post by Aidan on Dec 31, 2007 16:12:41 GMT
It works wonders and it shows with plentiful new shoots on the trees branches. Dave - Your conviction that it "does what it says on the bottle" is anecdotal. The same '...plentiful new shoots on the trees branches' might result from doing nothing or dipping in water or even in Marmite! There appears to be not one shred of empirical evidence that Superthrive achieves anything other than generating profit for the manufacturer. If that empirical evidence were available, would not the manufacturer be broadcasting the information far and wide instead of plastering the packaging with unbelievable hyperbole? It might sound unpleasant, but people don't like to believe that they have been suckered. Having bought and paid for a product, they will see results whether or not there are any. The highly profitable field of homeopathic "medicine" works on the same basis with a little bit of placebo effect thrown in.
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wadave
Full Member
He don't know me vewy well do he?
Posts: 283
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Post by wadave on Jan 3, 2008 8:29:45 GMT
Hi Aidan,
My above post was made from observations over a series of years of sever root pruning on one particular tree ( a Japanese maple) and the recovery time was quite significantly improved between using superthrive and not using it. Upon removing the tree from the pot the next transplanting time showed the pot was almost full of fine feeder roots which did not occur on years previous to the superthrive use.
Tree growth is matched above and below ground, ie vigorous top growth cannot occur if there is little to no growth in the roots.
I also think it important to note that the basis of great bonsai is developing a healthy and robust root system so I do pay very careful attention to this area in my bonsai and I notice what gives me good results. Japanese maples have a tendency to develop leaf burn during our hot summers if their fine feeder root system is not sufficiently developed. In the period after using superthrive was the first year in about 7 years of growing this tree I was able to grow it with very minimal leaf burn.
I've not ever said "does what it says on the bottle" as you've quoted me here. Infact I was trying to explain that out of all the outrageous claims on the lable the only thing it seems to do is improve the health and vitality of a plants root system from which all other results are dependent.
The product does however contain vitamin B and there is vast amounts of empirical evidence out there as to its effect on the growth of roots and the growing tips on branches.
However I do agree there doesn't seem to be any real evidence to the exact effect that superthrive use has on anything and the label does contain mostly hocus pocus which doesn't really seem to be backed up by anything.
The other distinction I have to stress is the very big difference between the root systems of a tree and those of a carnivorous plant which I tried to explain in my previous post. So there cannot be any real correlation between the effect it did have on my bonsai and the perceived effect it may have on the reduction of transplant shock in CP's.
I hope this clarifies my earlier remarks.
Dave
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Post by Vater Araignee on May 22, 2008 15:48:27 GMT
SUPERthrive is worse than Voodoo. At least with Voodoo if you think that that chicken leg being shaken at you will hurt you, then eventually it will. The usage of vitamin b1 is a load of hock, I don't care about all the empirical evidence that claims it works. You could have 1 billion people "relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory" and one anecdote of a semi properly conducted experiment will quash them for me. SUPERthrive also contains IBA and NAA but not in concentrations that are worth the expense, especially once you dilute it so that the mineral concentration will not harm your... should I say "Mineral sensitive Plants?" For those that insist on using it, save your money and make it yourself. 1 Gal. distilled water $0.98 1.4 oz jar of Vegemite $12.95 1 dram VaterAid CP drink. $5.00 and mix $18.93 Actually it is stronger then Superthrive without the other pesky cp killers added like iron and calcium. I just thought of something... There has to be one person here that can get this stuff analyzed for free or next to it. I fixed the add
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fredg
Full Member
Posts: 367
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Post by fredg on Jun 4, 2008 11:01:29 GMT
Let s/he who has not SuperThrived throw the first stone. I am he/she ( checks) .....he who hath not sinned. ( Checks again..... whooooooooooo!) I have before me a ruddy great boulder. Please specify the target
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Post by jj1109 on Jun 4, 2008 11:58:45 GMT
There has to be one person here that can get this stuff analyzed for free or next to it. what exactly do you want analysed in it? i have access to all sorts of instruments that can measure levels of metals, fancy compounds etc. say what you want and i'll see if i can do it
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Post by Vater Araignee on Jun 7, 2008 9:08:44 GMT
There has to be one person here that can get this stuff analyzed for free or next to it. what exactly do you want analysed in it? i have access to all sorts of instruments that can measure levels of metals, fancy compounds etc. say what you want and i'll see if i can do it Simple, I would like to know 100% of the ingredients in it or at least all of the ones we know are harmful and or useless. For thopse of you that are concerned about infringement, this "Patent Plant Medicine" is not patented, well it may have a patent but not after 1976 and that means expired, way expired.
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Post by jm82792 on Jun 13, 2008 16:10:48 GMT
(Vateraid Superthrive,that stuff is just a quake plant med Along with violet rays,therapeutic shocks,radium water and other means of physical torture and discomfort,Uhh I mean wonderful Cures..
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