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Post by fischermans on Sept 2, 2012 13:38:05 GMT
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Post by ICPS-bob on Sept 2, 2012 16:12:15 GMT
It is interesting that observant and curious amateur botanists are still finding new species:
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by jeff on Sept 21, 2012 7:45:46 GMT
Bonjour
very good information and parution
but no caryotype and DNA analysis .
may be also some others comparaison with all the crystallina aggregate like P.hirtiflora var gionae ,louisii,megaspileon ( seeds , pollen, and the morphological caracters )
it is nevertheless a good start.
jeff
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Post by yudirim on Sept 26, 2012 10:01:59 GMT
Dear Jeff,
I am first author of P. habilii. Yes, maybe it will be good that check (DNA and chromosome) with all of the taxa in group but it distinctly isolated species from the P.crystallina and P. hirtiflora with two growing type Also, this is very important characters. Also, seed structure is very unique. Also, I checked with P. crystallina var. gionae, loisii and megaspileon based on herbarium specimens and descriptions. We will start for DNA and caryotype analysis as soon as for all population Pinguiculas of Turkey for the rest.
Hasan YILDIRIM
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by jeff on Oct 1, 2012 7:57:38 GMT
Bonjour have you compared these new specie seed's with the seeds of P.crystallina subsp hirtiflora var gionae-var megaspileon- var louisii ? may be their DNA also for a better understanding of this aggregate? the winter stage rosette of the hirtiflora aggregate seem to me not different to your specie but may be I am mistaken. do you know this very interesting article : www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/articles/2007LeidenSteiger.pdf and all the Turkey population marked on it ? jeff
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Post by yudirim on Oct 1, 2012 15:12:06 GMT
Dear Jeff,
Yes, I knew this article, thank you. I think that, the problem is this.. If the any variety (magaspileon, gionae, algida ..etc) of P. crystallina / hirtiflora complex shows two different roset type and also very unique seed structure (like P. habilii), you should seperate a new species in my oppinion. For example, If the P. crystallina var. megaspileon shows these like difference, you can easily separate the "Pinguicula megaspileon" because these morphological characters too much for variety or subspecies.
We will start to DNA analysis as soon as possible in the all population of P. crystallina/hirtiflora complex in Turkey, may be we will check our data with all population in world . But, We use the molecular data only support for morphological data. Just molecular data or cytological data not important for me without morphological data.
Hasan YILDIRIM
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by jeff on Oct 3, 2012 7:05:32 GMT
Bonjour
continued discution soon on your e-mail
jeff
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