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Post by SilverKiento on May 22, 2007 22:03:48 GMT
I recently "completed" my aldrovanda setup by adding two water hyacinths and a Carex elata plant.. so I'm looking for any suggestions on things I can do to make it better. I also have a huge problem with algae right now too.. it seems that every morning the whole surface of the water is covered in algae. I've introduced algae eating snails and copepods but they don't seem to be doing their jobs. The U. gibba is doing alright against the algae but I fear that an aldrovanda will not be as tolerant. Here's a pic of the tub after I scooped off most of the algae. I like the way it looks now that I added those plants, it looks more realistic.. even though it's in a rubbermaid tub.
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Post by rsivertsen on May 22, 2007 23:42:28 GMT
SilverKiento, your set up may be suitable for a small strain of one of the red Australian Aldrovanda, say the Kimberly form, but right now, my Japanese strains are so large, that only 2 or 3 strands would take up the entire container, and last maybe 3 weeks, which is when they would exhaust their food reserves, and CO2 requirement and die off, if the algae didn't get to them first!
The Rubbermaid containers is not the problem, the problem is that the larger green forms of Aldrovanda has an insatiable appetite for both food (prey) and CO2. Just like most species of aquatic Utrics' I've seen, when you pull up the plant, every bladder trap is black, loaded with caught prey, Aldrovanda is the same way, they need to have caught prey in almost every trap! and that's not all, they need to have companion snails that pull out the digested carcasses of those prey, otherwise they become loaded with fungus and algae, and they also need the presence of heavy Nitrogen feeders, like large monocots to absorb and assimilate the Nitrogenous matter that Aldrovanda release, and in exchange, percolate CO2 by respiration from its roots, and a host of copepods and small snails that groom the Aldrovanda strands of any harmful algae, and a constant source of new prey.
Your container reminds me of all those attempts I’ve made over the last 20+ years that I’ve tried to grow these plants in containers. It’s just an exercise in futility, and a waste of time, money, and Aldrovanda,
Where in Penn. Do you live? I have Aldrovanda naturalized in a small pond about an hours drive from East Stroudsburg Penn., in Northwest New Jersey, and I can show you the site.
PM me if you're interetsed.
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Post by SilverKiento on May 23, 2007 0:41:42 GMT
I guess I'm in luck here.. the Kimberley Form is actually the one that I ordered! I've tried to supply as much as I can to make the tub a suitable habitat.. the plastic thing that you can see in the back is actually what I am using to keep the water rich in CO2. Right now I'm using these CO2 fizz tabs but I will probably switch over to yeast as it is cheaper and probably better.
I've done the best I can with introducing things like copepods and snails.. I can't really tell for sure if the copepods are reproducing at all because I can't really see them. The snails I have not seen since I put them in the rubbermaid container. The ones I brought inside only come out at night and usually hide underneath rocks during the day.
I was hoping that the Carex would be able to feed on the nitrogen.. and produce CO2 from its roots. Whether or not it is a monocot, I don't know. I'm still pretty adamant on keeping some sort of aldrovanda in cultivation... I am hoping that you are right and I will be able to maintain the Kimberly Form.. but if I can't keep the algae under control then I can pretty much know that this will not work until the copepods start multiplying like crazy.
I live in Lancaster County. I think I would like to see some aldrovanda some time when time permits. I could talk to the founder of the SEPACPS (Southeast PA CP Society) and maybe we could plan a trip out there sometime.
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Post by rsivertsen on May 23, 2007 1:16:05 GMT
Carex is a monocot; and by the end of this year, their roots will have formed a thick mass all over the bottom of your containers. I tried growing a few ornamental Carex sp., myself, along with a few other back-yard water feature enthusiasts, and only three 8" diameter pots of the stuff, centered in the middle of an 8 foot diameter kiddy pool, managed to take over the entire bottom of the pool by the end of the season!
We also used some ornamental grasses, and some Juncus species, but nothing beats a natural setting for growing Aldrovanda! All the containers still had a constant algae problem, and constant struggle; very maintenance intensive!
The Aldrovanda also multiply exponentially, in the presence of unlimited prey, and other conditions, doubling their population every week, which is why so many people here have a grim view of me for having introduced Aldrovanda into a small pond!
PM me to schedule a visit.
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Post by SilverKiento on May 23, 2007 1:40:39 GMT
Ahh, that brings me to my next question! I'm assuming that I should remove the carex from the pot? I suppose if I just set the cube of soil in the bottom that the roots would soon anchor it in place.. I also noticed that the roots were actually coming out of the bottom of the pot anyways.. but I figured that removing the pot would create a mess. I guess that I will have to just keep scooping off the algae myself, and hope the copepods take over after a while. I can't really do anything about the algae that grows ON the aldrovanda without hurting it... I will just have to cross my fingers and do what I can.
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Post by rsivertsen on May 23, 2007 2:10:12 GMT
I can't really offer any other viable suggestions here, as I've been there, done that, just too many times, with all of them ending up in miserable and frustrating failures! Take a look at the photos that I've posted on this site, and ask yourself if you could support this many stands of Aldrovanda? Also look though the other posts on this thread with the suggestions and observations that I've already posted. I make it a point not to be too verbose and redundant when I can! To grow Aldrovanda properly, requires conditions that cannot be emulated, nor duplicated in an artificial container, it exists only in a complex symbiotic community, and cannot live well for any length of time isolated without its constituent symbiotic members! Life is not always as simple as we would like it to be! But it is Life on this amazing planet we call Earth!
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Post by maraxas on May 23, 2007 2:22:32 GMT
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Post by maraxas on May 23, 2007 2:26:41 GMT
I noticed also that Vic is growing a sub-tropical australian form like rsivertsen suggested (although he suggested red and Vic's is green). Which form you are growing?
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Post by rsivertsen on May 23, 2007 13:56:35 GMT
Vic does have one of the red Australian forms, but it doesn't get red in his conditions. If they were to grow in brighter sunlight, they would probably turn red, but then algae would also kick in very soon. It's a tough balance. Also, if the plants were to feed as they do in the wild, with every trap having caught something, they would also produce lateral and apical buds every 5 or 6 axils; but then again, if they don't have their companion snails to pull out the digested carcasses, they become loaded with algae.
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Post by SilverKiento on May 23, 2007 16:10:10 GMT
I think what I will have to do is make a little fishbowl for the aldrovanda to get strong.. and then when the snails and the daphnia get everything under control and the aldrovanda is big enough, I will add it into the tub and just cross my fingers.
As you all may have guessed.. I'm pretty stubborn when I see there is SOME hope.. and I am definitely still adamant on getting this aldrovanda to live in my little habitat that I made. The snails I have are Malaysian Trumpet Snails and I was told that they only feed on dead plant matter.. but they could feed on any dead matter for all I know. I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled and fight off the algae myself if I have to.
I also think that the Kimberly Form will have plenty of room in my little tub since it seems to be A LOT smaller than the normal form.
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Clint
Full Member
Posts: 808
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Post by Clint on May 23, 2007 16:17:08 GMT
I remember MTS from my aquarium days. They'll eat anything dead and leave live plants alone. They reproduce like rabbits and burrow in the substrate.
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Post by rsivertsen on May 23, 2007 16:24:35 GMT
I wish you luck, and the Kimberly strain should do well for you, several others have had it going for years! I just hope those Malaysian snails don't get lose in any nonindigenous habitats!
There may be several different species of snails that are involved with Aldrovanda, some are even predetory and feed on other snails!
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Post by SilverKiento on May 24, 2007 2:00:08 GMT
I may have to get a few of those to keep the trumpet snails from over-reproducing. XD
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matti
Full Member
Posts: 216
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Post by matti on May 25, 2007 12:30:15 GMT
Looks good silverkiento, lower your PH should keep the algae at bay, get a PH buffer from an aquerium shop, make sure you stay away from buffers containing phosphorus and nitrogen. Do not try to keep to many aldrovanda in the one tank as they exhaust the resources fast as rich has indicated.
Matti.
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Post by SilverKiento on May 26, 2007 3:29:35 GMT
Yeah I only plan on keeping one. I'll have enough trouble keeping the U. gibba from hogging up the whole container.. I don't need two aldrovanda to fight it out. So algae dislikes acidic water, eh? Well that's great cuz CPs love it. Actually I've noticed that the algae hasn't been as bad lately, maybe the copepods are actually doing something now.
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