Live sphagnum moss kills VFTs?

[zhilin]

I saw a post in another forum, saying the live sphagnum moss can kill VFTs. Is it true? Thanks.

[peterhewitt]

I think, and i am not absolutely sure,having not used LIVE Sphagnum on Vft's, that it is safe for them. it is only with small seedlings that problems might arise from the sphagnum outgrowing and overgrowing them.

[ICPS-bob]

Live sphagnum will not kill VFTs. As peterhewitt said, and the only potential problem is that some species of sphagnum might overtop the VFT and reduce light to the plant.

[rsivertsen]

Another reason is that sphagnum grows very fast in very wet conditions and VFTs do better in areas that are more drained, sandier and drier; this is also the same reason you don't find very many D. filiformis growing in live sphagnum either. - Rich

[Not a Number]

The VFT I got in the mid/late 60's was planted in live Sphagnum moss. I had it for 10-12 years without repotting. Sadly I left it in the care of my family when I went off to graduate school and came back during quarter break to find it dried out and dead.

Here's some of mine growing (18+ months) in live Sphagnum. It's been a bad year for my flytraps due to spider mites, aphids, mealybugs and possibly the weather. I did not get decent trap growth until late summer. It's difficult to see in the photo but under the shadow at the 3 o'clock position are some plantlets growing from the flower stalk cutting of a D. 'Akai Ryu'.


Peter D'Amato finds that VFTs are prone to rot in live Sphagnum.

I seem to recall seeing photos of them in the wild happily growing in Sphagnum.

[ICPS-bob]

Oct 28, 2009 22:37:15 GMT Not a Number said:

I seem to recall seeing photos of them in the wild happily growing in Sphagnum.

Here are some VFTs growing happily in sphagnum in the "wild" at the Albion bog in coastal northern California. That is, they had been happily growing there for decades before TNC cleansed this bog of such unwanted exotics.
rziemer.cpphotofinder.com/rziemer/zphotos/Albion_VFT6212.jpg

[unstuckintime]

I have often taken unwanted divisions of VFTs and planted them into my sphagnum growing container, just for laughs, and they have never done well. I always contributed it to that it was either A, too wet, or B, the moss grew too fast and simply "ate" the little division.

[zhilin]

Thanks all of you.

[stevestewart]

Hello all,

I find it amusing that a group of people that will split a monotypic species like Dionaea muscipula, that is found naturally in a less than 100 square mile area of North America, into hundreds (or has it become thousands now? ) of cultivars and bogus "types" or varieties, still insist on lumping all of the species of the world wide genus Sphagnum into a single "type". There are many species and varieties of Sphagnum. ;D

Some species of the genus Sphagnum are quite large vigorous growing, and some are very compact and slow to grow, and many are very drought tolerant.

The same growers that do not understand why their VFT traps will not work after daily hand feedings, seem to have difficulty keeping a moss from outgrowing their plants?!
I don't want to understand why!!

I have enjoyed growing and propagating Dionaea muscipula in many mixes, from peat, peat: sand at various ratio concentrations, Sphagnum live and dead, from many global locations, various orchid mixes and pure white sand.

If your vft dies, the last of it's problems was that is was planted in Sphagnum moss. A better place to look for problems, than on someones internet forum, is in a mirror.

Take care,
Steven Stewart
Florida, USA

P.S.
The temperature here today is 90F on the 29th of October, with lots of healthy Dionaea, Sarracenia, Nepenthes temperate and tropical Drosera all in active growth! My plants main problem is overeating the abundant insects, frogs and lizards that are still active.

[Not a Number]

Oct 29, 2009 21:31:19 GMT stevestewart said:

Hello all,

I find it amusing that a group of people that will split a monotypic species like Dionaea muscipula, that is found naturally in a less than 100 square mile area of North America, into hundreds (or has it become thousands now? ) of cultivars and bogus "types" or varieties, still insist on lumping all of the species of the world wide genus Sphagnum into a single "type". There are many species and varieties of Sphagnum. ;D

Some species of the genus Sphagnum are quite large vigorous growing, and some are very compact and slow to grow, and many are very drought tolerant.

The same growers that do not understand why their VFT traps will not work after daily hand feedings, seem to have difficulty keeping a moss from outgrowing their plants?!
I don't want to understand why!!

Considering that there maybe as many as 350 known species of Sphagnum moss and many of the criteria to identify the species requires a microscope to distinguish I sincerely doubt your average causal carnivorous plant grower will take the time to identify the species.

The criteria include:

- Number of branches per fascicle
- Number of pendent and spreading branches, and their degree of differentiation
- Shape of branch leaves (squarrose, hooded, etc.)
- Direction of stem leaves (upward, downward or horizontal)
- Shape of the head
- Size and prominence of the terminal bud
- Secondary pigments
- Shape and location of chlorocytes
- Spiral fortification of hyalocytes
- Number, size, and fortification of pores
- Structure of hyalocyte cell walls (papillose or other ornamentations)
(source www.botanik.univie.ac.at/~temsch/classif.html)

It doesn't take much of an expert to identify a cultivar if the criteria is something distinctive such as shape of the trap leaves or cilia.

Nor does it take an expert to read the label that came with a specimen.

If the species of Sphagnum was identified when the sample was obtained I'm sure some people would pass that information on.

Of course this presumes that the label was accurate to begin with.

[stevestewart]

Oct 29, 2009 22:04:41 GMT Not a Number said:

Considering that there maybe as many as 350 known species of Sphagnum moss and many of the criteria to identify the species requires a microscope to distinguish I sincerely doubt your average causal carnivorous plant grower will take the time to identify the species.

It doesn't take much of an expert to identify a cultivar if the criteria is something distinctive such as shape of the trap leaves or cilia.

Nor does it take an expert to read the label that came with a specimen.

If the species of Sphagnum was identified when the sample was obtained I'm sure some people would pass that information on.

Of course this presumes that the label was accurate to begin with.

Hello NAN & all,

As lucrative and popular as bryology is as a profession, I was not intending to imply cp growers branch off into that field! ;D

I intentionally did not use any specific names in my post about live Sphagnum as a growing media. Carnivorous plant growers are very capable of creating many descriptive plant names without the use of any taxonomic keys or any specific non-environmental anatomical criterion.

I believe the list of criteria to help identify Sphagnum species you posted, is a list of "leaf shapes", branches and reproductive structures. The principles are the same, the nomenclature is directed toward unique features found in Sphagnum.

Since I am no "expert" I will stick to vascular plants like the many types of Dionaea muscipula, with their unique trap shapes and marginal cilia!

I do have some "Bob moss" for sale if anyone has read his offer in the post about Drosera scorpioides "seed". ;D Just kidding!

Take care,
Good growing,
Steven Stewart

[gesorin]

Please,
which media is more appropriate for sowing VFTs ?
Sphagnum moss (dried sphagnum moss not sphagnum peat moss) or coir.
Thanks.

[coldcoffee]

Hi gesorin,
Welcome to the forum. Since you have excluded peat moss. Between coir and sphagnum I would definitely say long fibered sphagnum. I do not grow my VFTs in LFS personally so I cant really offer you any personal anecdotes. Personally if I did I would probably cut the fibers down- I might mix in some perlite as well. Then again I might not...

I have read of a few people trying coir for several types of carnivorous plants but I have yet to read a report of success comparable to using peat moss or LFS. Then again, I am not sure how many have tried or what they did. I have considered doing a little experiment myself using coir. I would suggest peat and coarse quartz sand or peat and perlite as the best choice, LFS would be my second. If I had to use coir I would check the pH and possibly treat it with an acid solution. I would also not use pure coir but would do something like a 50:50 mix of coir and perlite.

[hcarlton]

I have rescued flytraps fro mplaces like Lowes which were growing in LFS, and while a topping of live sphagnum is always good for nealry any carnivore, in my experience, the best soil to grow flytraps in is a 1:1 peat/perlite or sand soil. That being said, while flytraps can survive in LFS and grow well for periods of time, the moss, when dead, is usually too dense for the plant.