Brocchinia reducta seed...

[Brian Barnes]

Hello All!
Thanks to the efforts of Steve Stewart and myself, I am proud to announce what I believe are the first photos of Brocchinia reducta seed and pods which were achieved in cultivation taken by Steve and myself.
Here's some decent closeups with measurement....
Happy Growing,
Brian.

[ICPS-bob]

Good job!
Now, the real tests: Are they viable, can you germinate them, and can you get them to grow into mature plants?

[stevestewart]

Great photos Brian,

Would these photos be clear enough for one of the experts (Barry, Bob, Moderators, others) here to determine the seeds to be Samara form? It is how I see them to be, but confirmation or other determination would be very much appreciated.

Take care,
Steven Stewart

[BarryRice]

Hey Steven,

A samara is a seed that has large, flat, papery adornments, created from the wall of the ovary. This allows for wind pollination. (Subsequent edit: While I wrote "pollination" in the preceding sentence, I intended to write "dispersal." How this error happened, I have no explanation!)

Sometimes the samara is very asymmetric and elongate. Examples are "keys" from maples. This is how I usually know of them, but I believe that a samara can also be symmetric, like on an elm seed.

The seeds in the photographs above certainly are winged on the ends, but the wings are created by the seed coat. In a samara, meanwhile, the wings are created from the ovary walls.

So I do not believe those are samaras.

Cheers

Barry

[stevestewart]

Thank you Barry,

I have always thought the wings of samara were for the purpose of wind dispersal, as is the case with the seeds in the pictures. I had no idea they played a part in the pollination process or that the size of the wings matters.
The wings on the seeds of Brocchinia reducta seem to be formed from the ovary walls, from what my limited magnification tools and eyesight allows me to see.

Perhaps someone in the future will be able to determine what form this species seeds are, when their plants set seed.

Thank you &
Take care,
Steven Stewart

[stevestewart]

Correction, and apologies to all of the 10's of readers I miss-informed!
A samara is a fruit or indehiscent seed not a seed of a dehiscent fruit. This makes the following statement incorrect. One of my references is not specific in this aspect in it's glossary, and simply calls a samara a winged seed or fruit. I was wrong not to cross reference my source.
It is best to check multiple references before disagreeing with the wise ones!

Please disregard all of the red words in the last sentence of this message-

After thinking about this for a short time, I think I will go ahead and continue to call the seeds of B. reducta samara. If someone else produces seeds on this Bromeliad species, and has a better name for them, I will reconsider at that time. For now Barry, we can disagree.
I do thank you Barry, I appreciate your consideration, and value your opinion.

Take care,
Steven Stewart

[BarryRice]

Hey Steven,

First off, I goofed up when I said "wind pollination"!!!!! I meant "wind dispersal", and will be editing my earlier post almost immediately.

(Why are none of the smiley icons available on this forum show a face with pink, blushing cheeks?!)

Anyway, like I said before, I think that samaras are produced, not from the seed coat itself, but from the ovary walls. But....I'm not going to pretend I'm a morphological expert in this.

(Clearly, I've been wrong before! Wind pollination....bah!)

Cheers

Barry

[stevestewart]

Sept 24, 2008 21:43:20 GMT ICPS-bob said:

Good job!
Now, the real tests: Are they viable, can you germinate them, and can you get them to grow into mature plants?

Bob & all,

I am happy to finally say yes to your questions!!

Many of the Brocchinia reducta seeds produced this year have turned out to be viable, and have just started to germinate! ;D With vigor. Exactly two months after sowing.

The parent plants that Brian and I grow are all from seed produced by a single plant, in a Florida greenhouse.

When I get a chance I will try to get Brian to take a high resolution photo of a few seedlings with seed coat attached, using his new fangled, many mega pixel camera, and steady hands ;D.

Take care,
Steven Stewart

[Brian Barnes]

Hey Steve,
Alas....Success! I'm looking forward to seeing those babies! ;D I'll snap several macro shots and post them when we have our next meeting...

Happy Growing,
Brian.

[Brian Barnes]

Greeting Friends,
Alas! I'm please to report and show what I believe are the first photos of Brochinnia reducta germination. Thanks to Steve Stewart's excellent seed germination skills and experience with the genus, combined with my growing skills during the flowering and post-flowering phase....Success!

Now, to get them through their extremely touchy seedling phase(in which they are amazingly prone to damping off) and on to Bromeliad adolescence! Alright, enough blabbing ;D....here's the pics.
Happy Growing,
Brian.







Here's a close-up showing the seedling emerging from the seedcoat;

[brokken]

Is it possible that the seed morphology is an adaptation to prevent the seeds from flying off the tepuis where they'renaturally found?

[Dave Evans]

No, that doesn't seem likely all. First, Brocchinia grows in large patches all over the Gran Sabana and it much more widespread than the significantly rarer Heliamphora which are only found in isolated pockets. Based on the very wide spread areas they have been able to colonize, wind dispersal of the seed makes the most sense. Heliamphora seeds are also designed for wind dispersal, but the seeds are heavier and the wings are proportionally smaller than those of Brocchinia so they can't go any where near as far. Probably one of the main reasons why Heliamphora are so patchy and have a much higher number of endemic species.

Brian, I have gotten those "pods" from my Brocchinia reducta, but I never saw any seeds... How do you know when the pods are ripe?

This is strange: When my plant flowered the year before, the flower stem had a rather different shape with different looking "flowers" and it didn't make any "pods" at all. Anyone else notice something like this?

[Brian Barnes]

Hi Dave,

After successful pollination, the pods well swell outwards slightly. They remind me of a miniature Hibiscus esculentus or okra pod at this time;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okra

Did you hand pollinate your flowers? Although said to be self-pollinating, I still cross pollinated all flowers with each other on the parent spike. There were usually several open on any given time...a 30X hand loop will ensure adequate conception.

The seed are very inconspicuous, and we actually had to dissect the pods to find the seed hiding throughout the capsules! When ready, the capsules take on a brown, dried appearance, which must be allowed to fully ripen on the spike until ready. Remove the pod a few days too early and....you'll lose your seed.
The trick is to catch them right before dehiscence of the pod.

Steve, wanna get in on this one? ;D

Happy Growing,

Brian.

[stevestewart]

Jan 21, 2009 8:00:31 GMT Dave Evans said:

Based on the very wide spread areas they have been able to colonize, wind dispersal of the seed makes the most sense. Heliamphora seeds are also designed for wind dispersal, but the seeds are heavier and the wings are proportionally smaller than those of Brocchinia so they can't go any where near as far. Probably one of the main reasons why Heliamphora are so patchy and have a much higher number of endemic species.

Brian, I have gotten those "pods" from my Brocchinia reducta, but I never saw any seeds... How do you know when the pods are ripe?

This is strange: When my plant flowered the year before, the flower stem had a rather different shape with different looking "flowers" and it didn't make any "pods" at all. Anyone else notice something like this?

Dave,

Brocchinia reducta forms three parted capsules not "pods".

I'm glad Brian's photographs have helped you hypothesize the reason for Brocchina reducta population's range in the wild. I haven't seen these native sites personally, so I don't know the wind/ weather patterns and other environmental factors that might be involved in their seed dispersal. Maybe someday I will make it there.

Brian understands this species flowering pollination and fruiting cycle as well as I do. The greenhouse plants that I first had set capsules were self dehiscent, this years seed was not. I had to manually open each brown capsule and extract the seeds by hand. In the past, when they were self dehiscent, the seeds floated out and land all around the plant.

Dave, your statement that "the flower stem had a rather different shape". Could you please be more specific? How was it different?

"with different looking "flowers""
In what way were the flowers different? Why have you put the term flowers in quotes? Again could you be more specific?

All B. reducta flowers I have seen have complete flowers, with sepals, petals, pistil and stamens. Some flowers of this species seem to have swollen ovaries from the onset, but in dissection, all of the flowers are complete.

Brian's and my past photographs have shown, in detail, the flowers and fruits, seeds and seedlings of our B. reducta plants. If you have photographs or a more detailed written description you could post I would enjoy reading and/or looking at it/them.

Take care,
Steven Stewart

[Dave Evans]

Hi Steven,

No I don't have any photos, and I don't recall too well what the older flower stalk looked like. I think it branched a lot more... Might have been a stress mutation.