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Post by shartmeyer on Dec 4, 2011 11:41:16 GMT
Meanwhile the CPN December issue has been released, so the time has come to post some information (provided in our CPN-article on Byblis) also to this forum. In late autumn 2010 Irmgard and I could successfully cross-pollinate the flowers of Byblis 'Goliath' (branching B. filifolia) with pollen of Byblis 'David' (non-branching B. liniflora). In spring 2011 we realized the clearly intermediate appearance (size and details, see photos) of five hybrid plants. This was especially interesting, because the flowers of the self-sterile B. filifolia release pollen only through vibration (buzz-pollination) whilst the small B. liniflora is fertile by self-pollination. The trans-species F1-hybrid is looking like an airy B. filifolia 'Goliath' on a first glance, also developing branches, but the flowers are self-pollinating and fertile like the male ancestor B. liniflora. In August 2011 we repeated the experiment and pollinated flowers of Byblis 'Goliath' again with pollen of Byblis 'David', and again developed a healthy seed pod which released seeds after 20 days. Meanwhile also the F2-generation, grown from seeds of the F1-hybrid started flowering in our greenhouse and we will soon report more about them. Photos of the hybrid: Fig. 1 = dried herbar specimen on DIN A4 (210 mm × 297 mm) size paper. Fig. 2 = plant details. We thank Brian Barnes for the trustful provision of Byblis 'Goliath' seeds (P-Generation) and personal communication such as his observations on pulvini in the genus, which enabled our time-lapse documentation on video as well as the experiments which finally led to the appearance of the supposed hybrid. And we thank Dr. Jan Schlauer for checking the results of our experiment and for his scientific expert advise. To make our CPN-article also available for readers who are not ICPS-members, we published it now also on our website: www.hartmeyer.de/ArtikelundBerichte/artByblishybridCPN2011.htmlThe story of pulvini and hybridization in Byblis is also part of our new movie " Sarracenia - Endangered Gems". That excerpt has now also been uploaded to YouTube:
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cindy
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Post by cindy on Dec 6, 2011 7:54:37 GMT
Hi shartmeyer, How does the hybrid seed size or shape compare with the pure species? For my cross of B. 'Goliath' with B. guehoi, the seeds are significantly smaller and more angular. Thanks!
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Post by shartmeyer on Dec 7, 2011 11:26:23 GMT
First of all I have to apologize for a nasty copy-paste-error which happened with the collage of the hybrid details. The former copy, which was unfortunately also posted to CPN with our article, contained the same small seed image as the picture with Byblis 'Goliath' details ... and it actually showed the Goliath seeds. This was alone my mistake and no editor can be blamed for this confusion. Meanwhile all pictures on-line have been corrected and the editors have been informed. To show the details clearly, here are the original USB-microscope pictures (200 x magnification). No sections were separated and enlarged, so the seed size is matchable. The hybrid seeds generally vary a little more in size than those of the parent plants. Fig. 1: Seeds Byblis 'Goliath' Fig. 2: Seeds Byblis hybrid (harvested from F1-hybrids) Fig. 3: Seeds Byblis linifloraI think this posting contains also the answer to your question.
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cindy
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Post by cindy on Dec 8, 2011 5:05:36 GMT
Thanks! I look forward to your report on the F2 seeds and seedlings. It looks like Byblis hybrid seeds (with B. 'Goliath' as a parent at least) have a tendency to looking more angular. Seeds collected this September.
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Post by shartmeyer on Dec 10, 2011 15:43:02 GMT
Thank you for showing your seed-match Cindy. As mentioned in our article I grew plants labeled as B. guehoi (seeds ex CPUK) in 2010 together with Byblis filifolia 'Goliath' provided by Brian Barnes, and I found no remarkable difference demanding a separate species state of the obviously closely related branching plants, except that all of those Guehois proved to be sterile and Goliath was fertile. Both plants are in my opinion closely related forms of B. filifolia or maybe - knowing for sure now that hybridization is actually possible - the off-spring of an unknown Filifolia-hybrid. The last hypothesis explains nicely the variation in flowering, branching and fertility, that takes place in different and even same generations of this plant-group (back-crossing). The B. filifolia from the Kimberley region, which I grew for some years, did never show such variation like Goliath/Guehoi and is probably a robust species. However, your fertile Guehois may be different from those plants which I grew last year, even though your photos (plants shown in a former thread as well as the seeds shown above) are also looking very similar to those of Brian’s cultivar B. filifolia 'Goliath'.
Your above added seed-match is unfortunately missing the seeds of your parent plants, could you please provide those too? And let’s take the chance now, to clear the actually interesting species/variety/hybrid-question definitely for our readers. Therefore it would be very helpful, if you could also provide some additional photos matching those specific plant details which:
A) Show clearly that your Byblis guehoi and Byblis 'Goliath' (P-generation) are different species, and not just varieties/hybrids of B. filifolia.
B) Show clearly the details which distinguish your Byblis guehoi (A) and (B).
C) Show clearly the intermediate and/or typical plant features describing the F1-generations of your supposed hybrids (additional to the seed morphology).
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cindy
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Post by cindy on Dec 12, 2011 8:53:18 GMT
Hi shartmeyer,
I am afraid that I am in no position to help "clear the actually interesting species/variety/hybrid-question definitely for our readers". Not because I am not willing to make a stand but my experience with the Byblis genus is terribly limited as a hobbyist. This year is the first time I am growing B. guehoi and B. 'Goliath'. After all, there are only four plants in total.
The parent seeds did not come from Allen Lowrie or Brian Barnes. The assumption is that the seeds are true to their labels but they could very well be wrong.
All three B. guehoi branched early in their growth in my conditions. The B. 'Goliath' grew like other B. filifolia I used to have in my conditions - tall and lanky. However, it did branch when it was about 90cm tall but it was more like the stem splitting into two...unike the branching in the B. guehoi plants where multiple lateral shoots just took off.
When I sowed the seeds of the parent plants, I had no intention of creating the hybrid. The plants were growing side-by-side and one of the B. guehoi (which I called A) and the single B. 'Goliath' happened to flower at the same time. Given the discussions on the forums, I thought I would just give it a try. Manual pollination was the only possible way to get seeds as buzzing insects are uncommon at my apartment balcony. Interestingly, a large healthy fruit actually formed on the first 'Goliath' flower and subsequently, all pollinated flowers formed fruits with many seeds. I had intentionally used the B. 'Goliath' as the mother plant but on hind sight, that is unfortunate because I now do not have the reverse cross for comparison. Perhaps the seeds will look different.
Unfortunately, all my hybrid seedlings (except for one) were given away as there is insufficient light at my growing area this season. I am looking forward to the next season where I can sow more seeds...this time, with location data.
Hopefully, I would also be able to get B. 'Goliath' seeds directly from Brian himself.
Cheers!
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Post by shartmeyer on Dec 12, 2011 17:10:11 GMT
Thank you for your reply, I see your problem. But in this case, and especially due to the fact that Byblis hybrids are not a normal case in botany, I would kindly recommend that you call your crossed plant on the forums legitimate a "supposed hybrid" and to use the labeling Byblis 'Goliath' x guehoi(?), to remain scientifically correct.
Due to the existing controversial issue whether Byblis hybrids occur or not, I consider it as essential that only verified facts on the topic become published. My above questions would have been asked by every serious editor or anonymous peer-reviewer of any scientific journal before publication.
But please keep on with your experiments and don't hesitate to let us know your results.
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cindy
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Post by cindy on Dec 14, 2011 13:11:22 GMT
Thanks, shartmeyer.
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